Eagle Gun Company Mk. II

[HistorianInProgress]

Part of me agrees with you but I'd also still love to get this so as long as there's a chance I can then I'll keep at it.

 

I gotta admit this is something of an eye opener. I've heard how contradictory and clueless the ATF can be, but to actually talk to federal agents and state police and walk away feeling like I'm the only one who actually read the law is something else. On top of that one ATF agent told me they could inspect the gun to verify it's okay, but wouldn't give me paperwork confirming it. Meanwhile a DSP officer plainly told me he just enforces the law and doesn't know too much about the mechanics of guns other than handguns. For what it's worth the troopers were polite and pretty friendly, but I wish I could've gotten some straighter answers so I wouldn't have go go down this rabbit hole.

[ron_brock]

Going to the state police is a rabbit hole. You and the FFL dealer friend have pretty high expectations thinking they would know anything about this piece - most troopers werent alive when it was produced. Most current law enforcement, no disrespect meant, have no idea whats legal or not outside of modern day normal run of the mill topics.

 

ATF would inspect to verify it does not readily violate any NFA act laws however a written determination would have to come from the Technology Branch which is what your field agent is indicating.

 

You could hire an attorney to run all this down for you.

 

Ron

[HistorianInProgress]

For better or for worse my FFL is pretty dead set on going back to the state police, any the only other FFL I've used before referred me back to this one. I'm continuing to try and get this but I'm starting to realize that due to my state (DE) it's unlikely it'll pan out due to all the ambiguous hoops I need to jump through.

 

Writing to the ATF Firearm Technology Branch is frowned up, right? Because of the idea we have a good thing right now so why have them scrutinize it? As much as I hate to admit it I might end up needing to pass on it to help out all those other guys out there who have one already.

[JimB]

For better or for worse my FFL is pretty dead set on going back to the state police, any the only other FFL I've used before referred me back to this one. I'm continuing to try and get this but I'm starting to realize that due to my state (DE) it's unlikely it'll pan out due to all the ambiguous hoops I need to jump through.

 

Writing to the ATF Firearm Technology Branch is frowned up, right? Because of the idea we have a good thing right now so why have them scrutinize it? As much as I hate to admit it I might end up needing to pass on it to help out all those other guys out there who have one already.

 

Yes, that's the old if it ain't broke don't try to fix it principle friend.

 

For years we were allowed to fire nearly whatever we wanted out of 37mm Gas Guns

all it took was one character demanding a determination to hopefully cover their butt to wreak all that

Since then no rubber slugs, rubber buckshot or anything else the Bureau sees as Anti Personel unless one 1st registers their launcher as a Destructive Device.

 

Their are numerous examples of all this and the vast bulk occurred post the blossoming of the world wide web.

 

As the Eagles are the same gun as a Spitfire there is a decent chance if cornered FTB would rule against them citing the pre 68' IRS ban on the breed as precident.

You can be certain ATFE is already aware of the situation, trust me despite popular lore they do have some extremely sharp folks and a just incredible reference collection containing thousands of different firearms...likely the largest Firearms "Library" in the nation.

 

As a rule they really don't go crazy on obscure things and even as a matter of routine remove items from NFA regulation, again though when cornered they generally do not rule in favor of the writer

in my opinion you are best to pass on the piece

[The Lone Ranger]

Federal: Buy and go on about your business or don't buy it and go on about your business. You are not going to prison either way - nonsense. If you don't want it or it just plain scares you given your geography, Colt21a seems to want it - maybe you could throw the old (devil) dog a bone and hook him up with the seller?

 

Delaware: Masked man is not competent to comment. (how often you see that admission on the internet?)

Edited September 5, 2018 by The Lone Ranger

[ron_brock]

Exactly as TLR says. FTB would only be reviewing the piece to confirm it is AOK in their eyes. A waste of time as its not an NFA item. Also you would likely need to send to them.

 

Your FFL on the other hand is concerned about Delaware law hence wanting to talk to state police. ATF has nothing to do with Delaware law.

 

Ron

[geefal]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i would bevery careful with this item,can you get somethingin writing with serial no. and description from owner describing that is exempt, just sayn.

Eagles are exempt, not mentioned in the original IRS ruling.

 

For a time ATF held that so long as the trigger frame attachment bolts were "welded" over even semi Spitfires were exempt from the old IRS ruling. Doubt that still stands though

Do you mean you doubt the Spitfire exemption still stands or the Eagle exemption? If the latter, do you think it's likely, at least 50/50, the ATF will actually know what I'm talking about and / or see that it's not specifically designated a machine gun and give me the go ahead?

Specifically the Spitfire exemption via welding

Eagles were never part of the original IRS letter

 

DO NOT get ATFE involved

1st of all the field office knows zip, anything they would tell you is meaningless and half the time field agents are about clueless

The real resource would be the Firearms Technical Branch however they likely will demand you send it in to them for a "determination" and that may result in them declaring Eagles NFA, again there is no practical difference between the two guns other than the name on them

 

The Bureau is notorious for reversing gears when well meaning folks press things

Leave good enough alone please.

So just to be clear, your advice is to either

buy the gun and hope nobody asks questions, the answers to which could put me in federal prison, or not buy the gun?

 

oh good lord, your not going to go to prison over this rifle, they are bought and sold all the time

[HistorianInProgress]

Just to tell you guys how it got wrapped up I ended up passing, mostly because I couldn't get a solid way to avoid conflict in one way or another with state law about a felony charge for buying/possessing/etc... any firearm adaptable for use as a machine gun; but also partly because some other gun expenses ended up being a lot more than I expected and I don't need to spend that much more money right now. While I don't think it's likely that if I was able to get the gun then I would get called on it, the fact is it's not a risk I want to take right now with where my life is going. If anyone is interested it's on gunbroker as "Eagle Gun Co"

[ron_brock]

You could get this one instead. It should be Delaware friendly.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/785245464

Ron

Edited September 8, 2018 by ron_brock

[colt21a]

Or a MGC Tokyo Metal Replica. You won't have to call anyone just send Paypal or money order or c.c.Card.You can lay in the Sarto Lounger and watch Dillinger on dvd while holding it. And not worry about the Delaware swat team breaking in.This was a super fun escapade ride like a tilt a whirl on steroids.

 

You should write Fantasy and Romance novels in spare time, And post here so we can critique before published/ see ya Colt21ARon

[HistorianInProgress]

Thanks for the tip, Ron. It looks pretty cool and I'll check it out.

 

It's also been nice to have you around as well, colt. Although you never provided anything of value here, and based on the quality of your comments I'm skeptical you did at any other point in your life, you've reminded me of a guy I briefly met in fire school years ago. He was a 50 something year old trainee and when I told him his phone ran on electricity he laughed at me and said he used to shove geeks like me into lockers in high school. It's seemed like you have a similar mix of ignorance and arrogance and so rather than waste time rolling in the mud with you I decided it wasn't worth saying anything, but now that I'm off I wish you well.

[colt21a]

Passive, Aggressive and no humor. AND now no Eagle. SAD.

[johnsonlmg41]

yes Ron, shame on you, it looks like you've melted another snowflake? I melted a few myself this week and puddles are everywhere. Apparently at some point understanding sarcasm died as well? In the new world everything is based on pictures, if you post pictures that dictates your level of knowledge, experience, and internet status. Because the internet has no memory or personal communication it's likely only a few of us here know much about your past. I think some of the younger folks just show up, ask a question and expect an answer like Alexa or Siri in 5 seconds from people that have spent 20+ years learning this stuff? As Jed put it "pitty-ful, just pitty-ful"

[geefal]

Just to tell you guys how it got wrapped up I ended up passing, mostly because I couldn't get a solid way to avoid conflict in one way or another with state law about a felony charge for buying/possessing/etc... any firearm adaptable for use as a machine gun; but also partly because some other gun expenses ended up being a lot more than I expected and I don't need to spend that much more money right now. While I don't think it's likely that if I was able to get the gun then I would get called on it, the fact is it's not a risk I want to take right now with where my life is going. If anyone is interested it's on gunbroker as "Eagle Gun Co"

 

Just an FYI. The reason the Eagle was not included in the letter from the ATF was that by design it was actually one of the only open bolt rifles that was NOT readily adaptable for use as a machinegun. Due the design of the inner workings, if you tried to remove the dis-connector it would cause the firearm to jam. Rather an ingenious design actually and one that would take a MAJOR rework of ALL the interior parts to get it to work full auto, unlike the open bolt KG9 and etc.. Again, this is why the ATF never bothered with it. Little knowledge goes a long way.