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Proof Marks On Your Reisings


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Poll: Proof marks on your Reising (47 member(s) have cast votes)

The serial number of my Reising is

  1. between 101 and 8500 (19 votes [40.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.43%

  2. between 8501 and 73600 (16 votes [34.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.04%

  3. between 73601 and 114317 (7 votes [14.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.89%

  4. a letter prefix model (5 votes [10.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.64%

My Reising is

  1. a commercial model. (28 votes [59.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.57%

  2. a military model. (14 votes [29.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.79%

  3. a transitional model. (4 votes [8.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.51%

  4. none of the above. (1 votes [2.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.13%

The proof marks on my Reising are

  1. only a "P" on the barrel. (18 votes [38.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.30%

  2. a "P" with one or more letters/numbers. (3 votes [6.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

  3. a "P" with letters/numbers and a punch mark on the receiver. (13 votes [27.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.66%

  4. not there (no proof marks). (13 votes [27.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.66%

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#1 levallois

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 10:38 AM

I thought it would be interesting to know if there are any patterns in the production of Reisings and the incidence of proof marks. Also, how many guns actually have these marks overall. Hopefull we can get a lot of participation from the members of this forum. Thanks!

John

Edited by levallois, 03 December 2007 - 10:39 AM.

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#2 Garrett

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 12:48 PM

Mine appears to have a "P1" and an "H2" as well as a couple of punch marks on the receiver (I assume these are for hardness testing).

I'm not sure if mine is considered a "commercial" or a "military" gun, but it has a parkerized finish and fewer fins on the barrel (14 fins?). It came with the 1-piece bumper. It is in the 56000 s/n range. The stock has a couple of very old pieces of tape with a rack number stenciled on them.


Edited by Garrett, 03 December 2007 - 12:54 PM.

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#3 duncel

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 01:08 PM

Park & 14 finned bbl = Military gun.

That said, there are actually no specific features which make a Reising 'commercial' vs. 'military', as they were never issued that way. However, typical differentiators include:

Commercial: 21 bbl fins, blued finish, a standard screw-type takedown screw
Military: 14 bbl fins, parked finish, thumb-nut takedown screw

That said, IIRC there were later 'commercial' guns manufactured with the blue finish but having the lower bbl fin count and thumb-nuttakedown screw of the military versions.

FWIW ...

Howard

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#4 Barry in IN

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 12:44 PM

I put in my data.

S/N 634xx

Barrel marked with a "P", "2", and "S" at the shank that are upright when read from the rear; and receiver has a "2" with punch mark directly below it which is upright when read from the muzzle end.

Mine has some Mil, and some Comm features, so I went "Transitional", although I'll probably never know for sure.
Stock: 3-screw guard, large thumbnut TD screw, forend grooves, reinforcing cross pins, 3.75x7/8 oval action bar cutout, swivels on bottom.
Receiver/action/barrel: Blued, receiver marking read from RH side, 28/29 fin barrel, windage adj frt sight w/set screw, 20-rd non-stepped mag housing, 2nd design mag catch (push/pull), no rear sight ribs or retaining screw, late type machining on action bar.

Edited by Barry in IN, 07 December 2007 - 12:55 PM.

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#5 levallois

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:32 PM

Barry's post brought home the point that a lot of detail is lost in my simple poll above. I guess what I'd like to propose is we start to collect and maintain a Reising data base with all these little nuances in an Excel spreadsheet that will be available for the asking to anyone who is a member of this forum. I would be happy to do this.

If you like this idea, then send me the following info about your gun:

serial number - within a few hundred is fine
general type - military, commercial, or transitional
Proof marks - none. only a P, or a P + letters/numbers and punch mark
Magazine catch - downturned ends or upturned ends
Cross pins in stock - yes or no
Finger grooves in stock - yes or no
Knurled take-down nut - yes or no
Barrel type - 26/28 or 14
Finish - blued, parked or can't tell
Swivels - bottom, side or none
Trigger guard - 2 screw or 3 screw
Adjustible screw front sight - yes or no
Magazine well type - 20 round or 12 round

Any other data that people might like to see that won't require people pulling their guns completely apart then please drop me an email.

I will not put anyone's name with their gun. I know some folks like to keep this stuff private so you can email me directly rather than post it here. If people don't warm to this idea then that's fine - no hard feelings, but I think it would be interesting to know what's still out there.

At any rate, I will be collecting this data from guns that I see for sale on the internet or gunshows.

Thanks!

John

Edited by levallois, 07 December 2007 - 06:35 PM.

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#6 Barry in IN

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:52 PM

Sounds good to me.
From my little bit of looking at, filling out, and submitting, M1 Garand Data sheets- You can get more detailed with it (for example, there are differences just among 20-rd mag housings) or less detailed (which will probably get more people to send in info).
Finding the happy medium is the hard part, and you may have hit on it with what you outlined there.


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#7 dalbert

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 08:30 PM

levallois,

I will forward my data in a separate e-mail. I just got my Reising in the mail today, after considering purchasing one since 1988. (Now that's a long shopping trip...I passed up several in the Fed Labs cases back then for $800 each) If you would like the proposed Reising spreadsheet posted with a link, I would be happy to make a permanent link available on the Sturmgewehr.com server. (I could update it whenever you want to)

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
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#8 hrman

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 08:39 PM

if we have more than one model 50, how can we vote again.? also, any interest in how the model 60,s are proofed?

thanks doug
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#9 levallois

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:28 PM

Barry,

Your probably correct that the balance is about right. I don't want to turn people off by making it too much of a hassle but we want to learn something about Reisings too.

Dave,

Congrats on getting the your Reising! I am a few payments away from getting mine unless Santa is good to me this year - I can't wait. I appreciate the offer of Sturmgewehr and will take you up on it once we get this started. I got to correspond with Frank I. too.

Doug,

Unfortunately, you can only vote once per email address - does anyone know a way around this?

John
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#10 levallois

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 12:58 PM

Reising database has been started on this forum - if youown a M50, M55 or M60 then please participate. Here is the link. Thank you.

http://www.machinegu...?showtopic=8892

John
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#11 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:54 PM

John, I will fill out the survey on my Reising on the seperate link.

Picture is of my "military" Reising's barrel which is marked with a P and letter M and has a proof punch mark on the receiver and the two de-milled Reising barrels I own. One barrel is from a 1991 parts set which has no markings on the barrel, my other loose barrel is marked with a P and the letter H.






edit added picture again

Edited by Bridgeport28A1, 28 December 2009 - 06:48 PM.

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#12 texasvwnut

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 08:12 PM

I've got a barrel from a parts kit as well. I'll get it out to see what sort of markings it has as well.
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#13 Bounty1

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:45 PM

Levallois:
Here's my Mdl 50 data. I put some of it in the "magazine poll" but I'll mention it again here with your added questions.:
S/N 67xx
Commercial
Only a "P" on barrel
No stock cross pin
screw, no knurled nut
28 fin barrel
blue
swivels on bottom
2 screw trigger guard
Drift front sight
20 rd mag well

Some other items. As I said in the previous poll, I have an authenticated letter from H&R stating it left the factory on December 8, 1941, shipped to Federal Labs in PA.
And a problem: It doesn't have mag housing pins that come out easily. I will have to have these pins, that are non-standard, taken out by somebody with the right tools, as in drill press and whatever. These pins were put in to stay, and I have to get them out before I can change any springs. Will do that in February.
Also, noticed from pictures that Bridgeport28A1, further up in thread has, that mine is stamped differently from his. If I hold mine level in my lap, with the compensator to the right, the stamping is read from the rear sight toward the front, as in MODEL 50 - H. & R. REISING - CAL.45
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO. (slightly smaller than first line)
WORCESTER,MASS. U.S.A. PAT. PENDING (same size as second line)
Bridgeport28A1's stamping is in the opposite direction.
Looks like you have your work cut out for you.
Regards,
Bounty1

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#14 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Bounty1 @ Dec 30 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Levallois:
Here's my Mdl 50 data. I put some of it in the "magazine poll" but I'll mention it again here with your added questions.:
S/N 67xx
Commercial
Only a "P" on barrel
No stock cross pin
screw, no knurled nut
28 fin barrel
blue
swivels on bottom
2 screw trigger guard
Drift front sight
20 rd mag well

Some other items. As I said in the previous poll, I have an authenticated letter from H&R stating it left the factory on December 8, 1941, shipped to Federal Labs in PA.
And a problem: It doesn't have mag housing pins that come out easily. I will have to have these pins, that are non-standard, taken out by somebody with the right tools, as in drill press and whatever. These pins were put in to stay, and I have to get them out before I can change any springs. Will do that in February.
Also, noticed from pictures that Bridgeport28A1, further up in thread has, that mine is stamped differently from his. If I hold mine level in my lap, with the compensator to the right, the stamping is read from the rear sight toward the front, as in MODEL 50 - H. & R. REISING - CAL.45
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO. (slightly smaller than first line)
WORCESTER,MASS. U.S.A. PAT. PENDING (same size as second line)
Bridgeport28A1's stamping is in the opposite direction.
Looks like you have your work cut out for you.
Regards,
Bounty1


Bounty1, when did you write Harrington & Richardson asking about your Reising's history? The "old" H&R company went out of business in 1986. Was it before or after the many subsequent company ownership changes?

From the "Wikepedia web site" A new company, H&R 1871, Inc., was formed in 1991 and started production of revolvers, single shot rifles and shotguns using old H&R designs. H&R 1871, Inc. assets were sold to H&R 1871, LLC, a Connecticut LLC owned by Marlin Firearms in 2000.[1] Unfortunately for owners of old H&R firearms, neither Marlin nor H&R 1871 will have anything to do with the older H&R guns as regards to parts and information.["

I have a hand written note from the NFA branch listing a 1943 date for my Reising's initial registration entry into the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. A subsequent FOIA request shows a later date, so much for consistency in requests to NFA branch.

Ross

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#15 Bounty1

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (Bridgeport28A1 @ Dec 31 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Bounty1 @ Dec 30 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Levallois:
Here's my Mdl 50 data. I put some of it in the "magazine poll" but I'll mention it again here with your added questions.:
S/N 67xx
Commercial
Only a "P" on barrel
No stock cross pin
screw, no knurled nut
28 fin barrel
blue
swivels on bottom
2 screw trigger guard
Drift front sight
20 rd mag well

Some other items. As I said in the previous poll, I have an authenticated letter from H&R stating it left the factory on December 8, 1941, shipped to Federal Labs in PA.
And a problem: It doesn't have mag housing pins that come out easily. I will have to have these pins, that are non-standard, taken out by somebody with the right tools, as in drill press and whatever. These pins were put in to stay, and I have to get them out before I can change any springs. Will do that in February.
Also, noticed from pictures that Bridgeport28A1, further up in thread has, that mine is stamped differently from his. If I hold mine level in my lap, with the compensator to the right, the stamping is read from the rear sight toward the front, as in MODEL 50 - H. & R. REISING - CAL.45
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO. (slightly smaller than first line)
WORCESTER,MASS. U.S.A. PAT. PENDING (same size as second line)
Bridgeport28A1's stamping is in the opposite direction.
Looks like you have your work cut out for you.
Regards,
Bounty1


Bounty1, when did you write Harrington & Richardson asking about your Reising's history? The "old" H&R company went out of business in 1986. Was it before or after the many subsequent company ownership changes?

From the "Wikepedia web site" A new company, H&R 1871, Inc., was formed in 1991 and started production of revolvers, single shot rifles and shotguns using old H&R designs. H&R 1871, Inc. assets were sold to H&R 1871, LLC, a Connecticut LLC owned by Marlin Firearms in 2000.[1] Unfortunately for owners of old H&R firearms, neither Marlin nor H&R 1871 will have anything to do with the older H&R guns as regards to parts and information.["

I have a hand written note from the NFA branch listing a 1943 date for my Reising's initial registration entry into the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. A subsequent FOIA request shows a later date, so much for consistency in requests to NFA branch.

Ross

Ross


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#16 Bounty1

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 08:10 PM

Levallois - Ross
You are right. I got the letter from the "old" H&R back in the 70's. I'd like to think that the new owners kept the records. I intend to write them one of these days to see if that's true.
Bounty1 (Joe)
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#17 sprat

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:53 PM

you poll does not account for M-60's

I am on page 3 in the above mention survey

sprat
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#18 renderman

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:41 AM

Hi, thanks for creating this thread. here's the data on my M50


serial number - 526xxx
general type - Military - but the stock length is that of "commercial" being 31.5"
Proof marks - m P u 2 . also a dot punch mark on receiver
Magazine catch -
Cross pins in stock - yes
Finger grooves in stock - no
Knurled take-down nut - yes
Barrel type - 14
Finish - parkerized
Swivels - bottom
Trigger guard - 3 screw
Adjustible screw front sight - yes, appears to be hex
Magazine well type - 20 round

Also, I would like to add it has a

bumper plug - 2 piece assembly. meaning spring rod is seperate.
bumper plug markings - small J marked

thanks!
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#19 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:10 AM

Hi, thanks for creating this thread. here's the data on my M50


serial number - 526xxx
general type - Military - but the stock length is that of "commercial" being 31.5"
Proof marks - m P u 2 . also a dot punch mark on receiver
Magazine catch -
Cross pins in stock - yes
Finger grooves in stock - no
Knurled take-down nut - yes
Barrel type - 14
Finish - parkerized
Swivels - bottom
Trigger guard - 3 screw
Adjustible screw front sight - yes, appears to be hex
Magazine well type - 20 round

Also, I would like to add it has a

bumper plug - 2 piece assembly. meaning spring rod is seperate.
bumper plug markings - small J marked

thanks!


You might want to double check your serial number, or the 526XXX thousand SMG is the new all time high!

Ross
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#20 Kilroy

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Posted 20 February 2015 - 05:15 PM

Serial number - 712XX
General type - Military; M55
Proof marks - P + S
Magazine catch - not sure? Works either direction?
Cross pins in stock - yes - one above take down screw
Finger grooves in stock - no
Knurled take-down nut - yes
Barrel type - 14
Finish - parked
Swivels - bottom
Trigger guard - 3 screw
Adjustible screw front sight - yes
Magazine well type - 20 round

Pictures:

http://www.machinegu...showtopic=17370
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