TSMGguy Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Deleted. Edited November 25, 2018 by TSMGguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Questions: Is the buffer pilot stamped with an "S" or an "AOC" manufacturer marking? What manufacturer mark is on the actuator? Can you post a picture of these two items, especially the rear hole of the actuator? Are you using a NOS GI spring? Or an aftermarket spring? timkel may be on to something, above. Can you measure the pilot end of the buffer pilot and the diameter of the pilot hole in the end of the receiver? Over the years I have noticed a slight difference of length between WWII GI buffer pilots. Perhaps you have one that is on the short side and is contributing to this problem. . The reason I asked if your Thompson was a West Hurley, above, because a very common defect for WHs is the pilot hole is not within proper specifications (too large). PK will make a dedicated buffer pilot for these WHs during his remanufacturing process. The buffer pilot is marked with an " S ". The spring is USGI NOS. I cannot find any marks on the actuator other than a " 5 ". The actuator & pilot seem to have excessive wear. Please see photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) An original USGI M1928A1 pilot should be solid, not hollow? Edited November 25, 2018 by TSMGguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 An original USGI M1928A1 pilot should be solid, not hollow?I have seen both types online. Some are solid & some have a hole??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 BrucePlease post two measurements, it will allow us to know rather than guess1) The distance from the front face of the disc on the buffer guide rod to the end2) The distance from the front face of the disc to the center of the takedown pin hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 BrucePlease post two measurements, it will allow us to know rather than guess1) The distance from the front face of the disc on the buffer guide rod to the end2) The distance from the front face of the disc to the center of the takedown pin hole3 3/162 13/16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob241 Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Drawing of pilot attached. Sorry, cut and paste did not work... http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/pdf/6147677.pdf Edited November 25, 2018 by bob241 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 That pilot tip wear indicates a problem.This is what a normal pilot/bolt assembly looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Drawing of pilot attached. Sorry, cut and paste did not work... http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/pdf/6147677.pdf File not found..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 It appears to me that the oiler (pads on each side of bolt) is not square at the rear of the receiver causing the pilot to tilt to one side. I had the same problem and after re-bendu g that and reinstalling, also added a urethane buffer on the bolt side of the pilot (two buffers) which shortens the travel 1/8" but gives the spring less space to kink. Take a peek at that oiler....methinks that will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 I believe you have identified the parts and perhaps all the problem. My guess is the pilot shaft on the buffer pilot was at the low end of the tolerance or maybe out of specification and was wobbling around in the pilot hole in the back of the receiver. This would explain the wear on the end of the buffer pilot and actuator hole. It is also possible the pilot hole at the end of the receiver is too large, but hopefully it is only a parts problem. I suggest purchasing a 1928 buffer pilot and actuator from Omega Weapon Systems. From what I have seen, most of their parts are like new. I would ask Don Bell if he would look for a buffer pilot with a bevel on both ends to match yours. I would also want to install a new GI recoil spring when installing the "new" parts. Omega has both the plain and knurled actuators If a different buffer pilot has any wobble when inserted in the pilot hole at the rear of the receiver I would stop and contact PK. He can make you a custom buffer pilot to fit the receiver hole. He does this all the time with West Hurley receivers that are out of spec (all of them). His wait time for fixing small problems like this is not measured in years. I also suggest obtaining one of PK's polymer buffer discs to replace the original GI red disc. No sense battering the rear of your receiver needlessly. I would also take heed of what several of the other Board members have posted. It is all good information. Your old actuator would most likely make an excellent candidate to be cut down to a 1921 style actuator. The end of your old buffer pilot may also clean up with a fine file and/or stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 Thank you and keep the info coming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 I will reiterate what John said. If the tip of the buffer pilot is off center its because therear of the breech oiler where the buffer pilot goes thru it is bent and not sitting flat againstthe back of the receiver. It can be tricky bending it back to correct shape but its do-able.You could also just take out the breech oilers to remove a variable. All this being said Idon't know that this is why the spring is coming out of the actuator. I'd figure - as othershave - that the buffer pilot is too short. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Buffer Pilot drawing link, if the link doesn't work the drawing may be found on nfatoys.com in the Thompson Drawings site feature. http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/pdf/6147677.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 OK based on this drawing and Bruce's measurements, his pilot is approx.5/32" short. That does not seem like a huge number but it may be enough to cause an issue. Bruce,When you go to re-assemble the gun are you leaving the pin inserted in the takedown hole and the spring trapped and compressed on the pilot until after everything is in place and aligned? Basically, pulling out the pin should be the last thing you do before putting the lower back on the upper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Not all Savage 1928 buffer pilots are created equal. A early and late Savage pilot comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 OK based on this drawing and Bruce's measurements, his pilot is approx.5/32" short. That does not seem like a huge number but it may be enough to cause an issue. Bruce,When you go to re-assemble the gun are you leaving the pin inserted in the takedown hole and the spring trapped and compressed on the pilot until after everything is in place and aligned? Basically, pulling out the pin should be the last thing you do before putting the lower back on the upper.Yes, that is exactly what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 I will reiterate what John said. If the tip of the buffer pilot is off center its because therear of the breech oiler where the buffer pilot goes thru it is bent and not sitting flat againstthe back of the receiver. It can be tricky bending it back to correct shape but its do-able.You could also just take out the breech oilers to remove a variable. All this being said Idon't know that this is why the spring is coming out of the actuator. I'd figure - as othershave - that the buffer pilot is too short. BobI will check that out Bob. Thank you all again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 Not all Savage 1928 buffer pilots are created equal. A early and late Savage pilot comparison. The shorter buffer pictured looks like the one I have. I am a prime example of how the spring will pop out with the shorter buffer. So, I ask, how did the original guns work with the shorter buffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 Not all Savage 1928 buffer pilots are created equal. A early and late Savage pilot comparison. So, I ask, how did the original guns work with the shorter buffer? They work just fine. I would focus on alignment of your pilot and actuator and not the length of your pilot. See the wear marks on your actuator pilot hole and pilot end. These have been hitting one another and should not be. This is bad! Get yourself a new GI actuator, pilot, oil pads (unless you want to bend yours) and spring (yes another new one). Unless your receiver is bad (pilot hole worn out) this will correct your pilot alignment issues and keep everything running fine. Its not about the length of the pilot, its how well you line it up with the hole. If it lines up, you spring will compress correctly. If it does not align, your spring will do as shown in your photos. Same as when you try to put the gun together without the aid of the pin hole. Spring needs to be compressed straight else it will shootout sideways. Make sense? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 Not all Savage 1928 buffer pilots are created equal. A early and late Savage pilot comparison. So, I ask, how did the original guns work with the shorter buffer? They work just fine. I would focus on alignment of your pilot and actuator and not the length of your pilot. See the wear marks on your actuator pilot hole and pilot end. These have been hitting one another and should not be. This is bad! Get yourself a new GI actuator, pilot, oil pads (unless you want to bend yours) and spring (yes another new one). Unless your receiver is bad (pilot hole worn out) this will correct your pilot alignment issues and keep everything running fine. Its not about the length of the pilot, its how well you line it up with the hole. If it lines up, you spring will compress correctly. If it does not align, your spring will do as shown in your photos. Same as when you try to put the gun together without the aid of the pin hole. Spring needs to be compressed straight else it will shootout sideways. Make sense? RonI will check on this tomorrow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 You could also try working the action without the spring and see if you can detect where the issue may be. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 I will check these thing out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucea4 Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 You could also try working the action without the spring and see if you can detect where the issue may be. RonAppears normal. I will replace the actuator & buffer pilot. Can't find an actuator with the knurled knob which sucks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob241 Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 This supplier has everything you need to repair your thompson, great vendor to deal with, most of his parts are line new. http://www.omega-weapons-systems.com/thompson1928m1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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