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My new favorite .38 Super, Cop AND Robbers!


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Thanks David!

 

After always hearing the "if only it could talk" saying, it's truly thrilling to be able to put the story together for something like this. I am still investigating, hoping to find a prison record and mugshot for the third man arrested with the car, and also trying to find information on James Roberts' father in law arrested for murder in Chicago.

 

Roberts' wife had been living at 3511 W. Adams in Chicago, apparently the address at which her father was arrested on the murder warrant after the Detroit bust.

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Nice stuff, just keeps coming. Was noticing the US Army 30 cal rifle was serial # 143135, I think that clearly takes it out of the BAR world.

Do you have an IO poster possibly, that usually gives relatives etc. Any one have info on the Purple Gang, wasn't that the Detroit area, could be mistaken.

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Hi Sandy. Yep, Detroit was Purple Gang. I haven't found any listing of "known associates" unfortunately, which could be cross referenced for other bad guys connected to various gangs. I'm hoping investigation of the father-in-law may give us some connection to a known Chicago group. I'm not sure if The Outfit employed many Irishmen, but there are plenty of other possibilities of course.

 

One of the prison file documents describing the arrest mentions a "Springfield" rifle in the car, so either a 1903 or much more likely a Krag as we supposed. Without that document, the serial "could" still have indicated a BAR, as that number falls within the Winchester range.

 

I'd like to know more about the bank robbery Roberts was suspected in...

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Interesting, great research. Keep stabbing, something will pop up.

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One of the prison file documents describing the arrest mentions a "Springfield" rifle in the car, so either a 1903 or much more likely a Krag as we supposed. Without that document, the serial "could" still have indicated a BAR, as that number falls within the Winchester range.

 

 

Now that certainly sounds like an M1903. Those were around as well, you could buy them but most criminals stole them from National Guard armouries.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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Clyde Barrow certainly stole many of his weapons from the National Guard Armories, BARs of course, but in the pictures recovered after the Joplin shoot-out, he displays the Krag 30-40 stolen from the same. ( also his famous " Whippet " gun and others )

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I'm pretty sure Barrow's Krag was a commercial item; they were available all over in the 1930s. Barrow stole two M1903s in April 1933 from the armoury in Plattville, complete with slings and bayonets. Since those never turned up again he probably sold them or stashed them somewhere, just like he did with many of the BARs.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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Hmmm, I have it as 3 BARs and some 45s out of Plattville, Ill which I hear was iffy, coming of course from WD Jones.

The photos of the Krag and others was taken in late March 1933, They arrived in Joplin on March 31, 1933, where the film was recovered after the shoot out April 13, 1933 and the police had the film developed- Bonnie & Clyde !! It's believed Clyde's Whippet shotgun was used to kill extensively in the Joplin battle.

They did supposedly rob a grocery store, a tourist camp and the Neosho Milling Company in the area, in the twelve days in Joplin,

 

Off subject here a bit, sorry.

 

OCM

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HANS-( USMC)

Confirmed with Jim Knight, you are probably correct on the Krag, vs M1903. The Platteville thing is iffy as we've discussed here. ( WD JONES) .

Keep em coming, great history...

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Probably lost to history, but I'm inclined to believe it was most likely a Krag simply due to the prevalence of surplus/sporterized pieces floating around during that time. Hard to beat a cut down rifle or carbine for handiness in a car, and it seems the rest of their weaponry was commercially sourced so the stolen gov't property angle seems less likely in this particular case.

 

Fascinating regardless!

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HANS-( USMC)

Confirmed with Jim Knight, you are probably correct on the Krag, vs M1903. The Platteville thing is iffy as we've discussed here. ( WD JONES) .

Keep em coming, great history...

 

The Springfields are listed in the FBI fies, #26-4114. What most people don't know, even most Barrow biographies, is that Barrow burgled the armoury at Plattville TWICE, once in April and once in August of 1933.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

Edited by HANS
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New to me. Interesting, I'll sure bring that up to Jim Knight today, he'll want to know, see what he says. Might start a new thread on this or email me direct as not to clutter up this one.

 

Thanks

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New to me. Interesting, I'll sure bring that up to Jim Knight today, he'll want to know, see what he says. Might start a new thread on this or email me direct as not to clutter up this one.

 

Thanks

 

Sandy, I sent you an email. I'll be glad to share my research.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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Thanks- I did remember I had the FBI file you mention, it was sent to me by Winston Woodward a number of years ago. It was produced by Winston , Tom Methvin & Jimmy Gilman, know all those boys. Ken Holmes was selling the copies to the public with his Southwest Historical Publications and I believe at the Arcadia Bonnie & Clyde Museum. Ken, who is now passed away, owned the B&C movie car that's on display with ( my old) Dillinger Essex, I knew Ken fairly well.

Winston got the files from John Fox, who , along with Larry Wack, ( my help a bit) found the missing Dillinger Colt 380.

I just forgot I had the CD with the files. Almost positive Jim Knight has the CD too as he was also close to Ken Holmes, be very surprised if he didn't

Still would like to see what you emailed me about, appreciate your ongoing research.

I'll run the file today, will also contact Jim.

 

OCM

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  • 9 months later...

Finally got the records for the third guy arrested with this pistol a few months back. My assumption was that he was a minor character as his arrest record shown in the Detroit PD files was very brief, and he was released right away. Turns out he's the most interesting of the lot...

 

​Fortunately I was able to share this with Sandy not long before he passed. Meant to come back to this thread on the forum and update here as well, and just had not set aside the time to do so.

 

Drumroll, please...

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Turns out that John "Whitey" Conley was a known associate of Fred "Killer" Burke and Gus Winkeler, two of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre shooters and former Egan's Rats from St. Louis who became Capone's "American Boys" in Chicago. Conley arrested for bank robbery and sententced to 25 years at Alcatraz about a year after his arrest with this pistol.

 

 

Conley mugshot.png

Conley prints.png

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Conley2.png

Conley3.png

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Thanks David. It's not the most "expensive" gun I own, but it has the best history. The Conley connections open up a whole additional world of fantasizing about where it was and what it was used for between 1930 at Wolf & Klar, and 1935 in Detroit.

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