Thompsonlover Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 I was at the grocery store yesterday looking at the gun magazines. In one of the magazines which had an article about the top 20 suppressors, It was mentioned that color copies of Form 4's were illegal. I've never heard of such a thing. Anyone else aware of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) I like the color of the tax stamps.......What reason was given for the notion that a color copy of a registration form is illegal? Edited November 15, 2018 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 FWIW I've had color copies of forms 4 notarized to carry with me, leaving the originals in a safe deposit box. No one's had a problem with it, but then no one's ever asked to see a form 4. The only thing LE has ever said was something like, "Cool! Can I shoot it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted November 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 I like the color of the tax stamps.......What reason was given for the notion that a color copy of a registration form is illegal?Bob, I don't remember the notion why ... sorry. I believe they were talking about bringing your suppressor paper work to the range.I didn't buy the magazine and will look at it again when I make back to the grocery store tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Urban myth based on a fed reg. I travel with a miniature set of color copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougStump Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 You can make black & white copies of the revenue stamp, color is not permitted. It's not an ATF regulation, it's in the Treasury regs. 18 U.S. Code § 504 - Printing and filming of United States and foreign obligations and securitiesNotwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the following are permitted: (1) The printing, publishing, or importation, or the making or importation of the necessary plates for such printing or publishing, of illustrations of— (A) postage stamps of the United States, ( revenue stamps of the United States, © any other obligation or other security of the United States, and (D) postage stamps, revenue stamps, notes, bonds, and any other obligation or other security of any foreign government, bank, or corporation. Illustrations permitted by the foregoing provisions of this section shall be made in accordance with the following conditions— all illustrations shall be in black and white, except that illustrations of postage stamps issued by the United States or by any foreign government and stamps issued under the Migratory Bird Hunting Stamp Act of 1934 may be in color; all illustrations (including illustrations of uncanceled postage stamps in color and illustrations of stamps issued under the Migratory Bird Hunting Stamp Act of 1934 in color) shall be of a size less than three-fourths or more than one and one-half, in linear dimension, of each part of any matter so illustrated which is covered by subparagraph (A), (, ©, or (D) of this paragraph, except that black and white illustrations of postage and revenue stamps issued by the United States or by any foreign government and colored illustrations of canceled postage stamps issued by the United States may be in the exact linear dimension in which the stamps were issued; and the negatives and plates used in making the illustrations shall be destroyed after their final use in accordance with this section. The Secretary of the Treasury shall prescribe regulations to permit color illustrations of such currency of the United States as the Secretary determines may be appropriate for such purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted November 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 So I guess it is true! I called my local ATF branch and they said they never heard of it. I guess if its a Treasury regulation they may not know. I have been unable to get through to the main branch to see what they say. On page 26 of the Guns & Ammo issue on Suppressors it states when talking about storing documents: "Usually, a PDF saved on your smartphone will satisfy an officer. Now, its critical to note that it's against the law to make a full-color, original-size copy of your tax stamp and document. Either make it half-size, or do it in black and white." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) The Revenue Tax stamps on BATFE Form 4's are cancelled on the Form 4's with the serial number or a date on older Revenue Tax stamps. Is the CFR directed toward prohibiting reproduction of non cancelled Revenue Tax Stamps to prevent counterfeiting of Revenue Tax stamps? Edited November 15, 2018 by Bridgeport28A1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 I am curious since the ATF no longer fall under the treasury do their regs still apply to the ATF? Very interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StooperZero Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 that warning of making colored copies of tax/treasury documents is on a big sticker on a lot of the newer copier/fax machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 Size matters it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 The Revenue Tax stamps on BATFE Form 4's are cancelled on the Form 4's with the serial number or a date on older Revenue Tax stamps. Is the CFR directed toward prohibiting reproduction of non cancelled Revenue Tax Stamps to prevent counterfeiting of Revenue Tax stamps? I would have also fallen into the camp that the stamp is cancelled and therefore cannot be counterfeiting. Im not a lawyer and YMMV. Would duly agree with not color copying in full size an uncancelles stamp, but I dont have any. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougStump Posted November 16, 2018 Report Share Posted November 16, 2018 The US Code doesn't make any distinction between canceled or uncancelled stamps. I'd rather stay squeaky clean than try and push the envelope on something so simple. Counterfeiting is such an ugly word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted November 16, 2018 Report Share Posted November 16, 2018 Ironically then, BATFE (for whom it is not even legal for them to collect a tax) sent me scanned pdf's of approved efiled form 1's with stamps in color as originals? Does that mean I can only print them in B+W? I think not, I paid for a real stamp and never actually got one. I think as a society we are way past "US code". I'd use the phrase "no controlling legal authority" other than an actual treasury agent would be able to do anything about the stamp issue since it is beyond BATFE's purveiw. I also have stamps that are not cancelled......must have been friday afternoon approvals?This living on the edge all the time is taking it's toll! I don't think I'd ever make it as a professional philatelist,too nerve racking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpune Posted November 25, 2018 Report Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) So what are you supposed to do when you efile and get your tax stamp? Are you allowed to print it out in color? If you never saw the original stamp, how do you know what size you're allowed to print? The original stamp never even existed, did it? About the serial number and canceling the stamp, I can see how that wouldn't matter. If I build a NFA item and make up the serial number A0001, there is nothing keeping my buddy from creating his own NFA item with that same serial number. In that case, my "canceled" stamp with the serial number written on it could be used to try and skip paying the tax. If my friend went even further and created a trust with the same name as mine, it would be pretty hard for the lawman to say a photocopy of my approved form didn't belong to his gun. Personally, I take pictures of my forms and let them sync to a folder in the cloud. If anybody needs to see a copy, I can pull it up for them. Edited November 25, 2018 by giantpune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now