30 Round M1 Carbine Magazines

[stingray656667]

I saw some 30 round magazines recently that had no manufacturer stamping on them towards the bottom of the magazine on the rear spine. Does this mean that they are likely reproductions? They did show some age, wear and use marks but I don't know if that means anything. Thank you for any input.

Edited March 29, 2021 by stingray656667

[heavy artillery]

It's hard to tell from the description. We'd probably need a more detailed description and photos to make an initial assessment. This is an interesting article hosted by CMP on the subject: (M1 Carbine 30 Round Magazines: Identifying the USGI From the Others)

[MG08]

Remember repro carbine mags have been around for 50 years. wear and tear do not mean original. Plenty of info on repro mags out there, and no markings is a prime indicator. construction details second. there are good links for info at the "stickie" spotsDvid has saved. data below shamelessly stolen:

 

M1 / M2 Carbine Magazine FAQ
by James Wesley, Rawles
Copyright 2005. All Rights Reserved
Revised July 6, 2005

Copyright 2005, by James Wesley, Rawles

In response to numerous requests for clarification on the types and makers of M1 Carbine
magazines during and after World War II, here is a brief but as yet incomplete listing of
maker's stamps (Usually found on the rear of the magazine, roughly one-half inch to one
inch up from the floorplate):

15 round magazines. Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate
wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. A few were wrapped in red transparent cellophane. These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. They now sell for $5.00 to $10.00 each:

Inland Division of General Motors AI A1 IA II UI KI KI [inverted] II [circled] SI [circled] AI Note: Inland codes including an "A" were reportedly made by Autorye Co. For GM Inland Division

C. Cowles & Co. C

Saginaw Steering Divison of G.M. KSG S'G' OI-S'G' G- S'G' SP-S'G'

and some more Saginaw codes... U-S'G' O-SG K-S'G' ISG KSG (inverted)

IBM SY-B OI-B OI B

International Silver IS

Irwin Pedersen K-IP I-P-K IP-I C-IP UP

National Postal Meter UN MN

Quality Hardware UQ QU G-Q

Rock-Ola IR R-C RO RC R-G UR

Rugg Mfg. Co. (Greenfield, MA.) RUGG

Seymour Smith SS SS-4 R-SS

Standard Products SO SP

Stanley Works SW

Underwood IU LU UU IU [circled]

Union Hardware U

Wade Electric Products WEP [in curved type]

Winchester BW IW UW IW [circled]

And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks... (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these.):

B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?)

C+B

I.I.P.

S-C [stamped sideways]

O-S [in curved type]

SI

SL [circled]

SQ struck out with a line, and SP-SG beneath it.

UP

30 round magazines. There were two basic types made under military contracts.

Hard Back: The first (early) type is commonly called a "hard-back". The body for this
type was made out of one piece of sheet steel. It can be identified by the reinforcing
grooves that run nearly the full length of the sides of the magazine, following the curve of
the magazine for the entire length. These magazines are currently selling for $40 to $90
each, depending on condition.

Split Back: The second (later) type is commonly called a "split-back" or "two-piece." The
body for this type was made out of two pieces of sheet steel. It can be identified by two
reinforcing grooves that run at odd angles in the bottom half of the magazine. It is also
quickly identified by the two small slots or "splits" on the rear of the magazine, right where
it bends. Original split-back magazines are currently selling for $25 to $50 each,
depending on condition. BTW, some of these were unmarked, but are still original. (To
the best of my knowledge, no copies were made of hard-backs, only split-backs.)

Inland Division of General Motors KI

KI
M2 (stacked marking)

A.I. Made by Autorye Co. (for GM Inland Division)

AI Made by Autorye Co. (for GM Inland Division)
M2 (stacked marking)

OKay Industries OKAY (in circle)

Seymour Products SEY

Underwood Circled IU

Dutch, Post-WWII AYP

B. Jahn Manufacturing J J [underlined]

Unidentified K

Tony Scherer (Commercial, 1970s/80s) M2

Possibly Japanese Commercial NVS

Definitely Commercial. Maker Unknown IU

(Again, please send me an e-mail if you know who made the 30 rounders listed as
"Unidentified", or if you have examples with other markings...)

The following are William J. Ricca's notes on some commercially-made 30 rounders:

"IU - Definitely a fake. I inspected one and it had all the fake features of
Tony Scherer's magazines, even the rounded sides. The G.I. has a much better turn from
the body to the back. It is missing the crimp on the front fold that all US
GI welded magazines have.

J (and underlined J) - Made by B. Jahn Mfg. The name of the company before Eddie Okay
purchased the company and changed it to OK Industries in 1968/69 era. I
have had then in boxes of 100 and were dated 1966. This magazine is being
faked today and being sold in the SGN by a very [ostensibly] credible company.

AYP - Nobody has been able to prove anything military about [the origin of] these. The
story was originally they were G.I. That was blown away and the story
changed to Belgium Mfg. [Editor's note: Others say Dutch or perhaps Greek.] A source at Northridge told me that they were made by Northridge and are a continuing product. Missing the crimp on the front fold.

NVS- I think it is a Japan reproduction from the 1970's. I received one
with other Japanese marked magazines, but this one did not have the Japanese marking.
It is possible it was from a earlier time when marking on imports was not
required. Still nothing confirmed.

OKAY in circle. Okay industries has no record of making this. They know of
no contract, military or commercial.

Also, I have never seen a 30 round magazine that can be proven as US GI
that is not marked. Some of the games from years ago was the big guys (you
know who they are) sold repros into Central America and then ran ads that
they were US GI overruns. That is where these stories come from." [End of Bill Ricca's notes.]

Special note: Beware of aftermarket copies of the split-back 30 round magazine. Nearly all
of these are junk, and not worth buying. In general, unless you want to buy grief, only
buy original U.S. G.I. contract 30 round magazines, and if you can't find them, stick to 15
rounders! (Which are nearly all original.) Caveat Emptor!!!!

Nearly 90 percent of the "split-back" magazines on the market are after-market copies. Most are either completely unmarked or marked "M2" in an odd, wide, and very deeply stamped type face (type font), rather than a narrow font with a shallow marking like the original U.S. G.I. item. A few are marked "Jay Scott." The copies also usually have a dull blued finish, whereas the originals have a bright blue finish. Don't be fooled. These "M2"s are NOT originals! One in-the-know reader passed along the following info: "The ones stamped M2 are Taiwanese military mags, and 90%+ of them are junk. They are soft sheet metal, not properly heat treated, and the feed lips tend to get burred up and/or bent readily. Some are off in some critical dimension, like the geometry of the feed lips, or the placement of the magazine catch bumps They are best avoided."

On the U.S. High Capacity Magazine Ban:

The magazine ban passed in September of 1994 has now "sunsetted" (it is now null and void), so magazine prices have come down considerably.

Acknowledgements:
Thanks to Bud Evers (M1 Carbine guru extraordinaire) who helped me assemble
this list. BTW, if you need to contact Bud, his voice phone number is (707) 252-3226.
(Sorry, he has no e-mail address.) He sells U.S. M1 Carbine parts and accessories. Sadly he can no longer sell magazines "in State" since anything over 10 round capacity was banned in California on Dec. 31, 1999.

Thanks also to J.C. Harrison, author of "Collecting The M1 Carbine", from whom I picked up a few more maker's codes.

Special thanks to William J. Ricca, who provided a wealth of information on the various commercial makers of 30 round Carbine magazines.

James Wesley, Rawles <><

e-mail: rawles@usa.net

I'm the author of numerous firearms FAQS on topics including:
AR-15 magazines, M14/M1A magazines, M1911 magazines, FN/FALs and
L1A1s, Mauser rifles, pre-1899 cartridge guns, and European Ammo Box
Markings Translations. These FAQs are available at the rec.guns web site:
http://www.recguns.com/

_________________________________________________

 

[thirtyround]

All good info....

But one jewel to remember, on the USGI 30rd "split-back" mags..., On the front of the mag body is the folded metal roll line down the center / front of the magazine, about an inch or so below the feed well (where the ammunition leaves the magazine), there will be a small "crimp" in this metal fold line. It may be a good deformation or light, but the crimp there is the hallmark of a USGI 30rd magazine, regardless of the manufacturer. No Crimp... Not USGI

There's lots of "fakes" out there with all kind of marks, but I've never seen or heard of a fake done with this front crimp. .

The only other 30rd Carbine split-back magazine that possesses this same crimp is the excellent Reproduction made by KCI, They are marked U U on the back strap. They are finished in a very glossy shinny black finish, excellent reliable reproduction shooter mags.

Additionally, another excellent 30rd magazine worth obtaining is the "AYP" marked magazine, marked on the back strap in the usual place. No Crimp on this magazine however as they are supposedly manufactured by FN Belgium. These I have heard are being faked as well, although I have never seen one, so do your homework to ID a real one.

Be glad to discuss with you if desire, just PM me. Keep Your Powder Dry, Cheers, JB