6 replies to this topic

[guy1074]

I've been asked to broker the sale of a Colt 21/28 Navy Overstamp, s/n 7506.  I know a lot of the collectability and thus final sales price depends on originality of parts, condition, etc.  I am generally familiar with the Thompson, but am not well versed on all the particular fine details to look for and so would like to turn to the experts here for your opinions.

 

I have taken a number of photos, both with and without flash to try to capture as much detail as possible. 

Photos can be found here: https://drive.google...LF9?usp=sharing

 

From what I can tell, the parts look original and proper for the gun.  The oiler has a black crinkle finish, so may be a later WWII one?  The drum that he's selling with it is a WWII drum as well.  Obviously there are some minor condition issues (small amount of rust on the right side of the receiver, several scratches).

 

What else can you tell me about this gun?

Are there any other parts that seem suspect of not being original?

Anything that would drastically affect the value one way or the other?

 

I appreciate any feedback you may have for me!

 

Richard

Houston Arms & Training

sales@houstonarms.com

[Sandman1957]

Add a photo of the front end of the stock.  There should be a small anchor stamped into the wood.   Anchor stamp.jpg   37.96K   4 downloads

 

Likewise take a photo of the inside of the buttplate.  There should be a R Stamped on in one or two places.   R butt plate 3.jpg   50.78K   2 downloads,   R buttplate 2.jpg   68.23K   1 downloads,   R butt plate 1.jpg   59.06K   0 downloads

 

A few more of the bolt.  One from the back end.  Need to see the milling marks, and any letters if any.

regrets, don't have examples handy.

 

Best 

Sandman1957

[Sandman1957]

According to Gordon Herigstad's final book on Colt Thompson serial numbers,,, That specific Colt Thompson was originally shipped to the Harris County Sheriff;s Office, Houston, TX  (1 of 3) total.  It was shipped  April 14th 1934, Attn:Sheriff T.A. Binford.  The seller may want to contact them to see if they have any additional history with this gun, as it could add significantly to the value.  Should they have any old photos or paperwork, that would be of value as well.

 

While this is only my opinion, it is likely that this Thompson was ordered due to Bonnie and Clyde operating in the area.  They had just killed two Texas Patrolmen on 01 April 1934  and they were being hunted by Frank Hamer for the Governor of Texas.  Lot of public out rage and publicity on the killings and bank robberies.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Frank_Hamer

 

Anyway, while not specifically linked, the date it arrived was in keeping with many Law Enforcement agencies trying to arm up due to the outlaws having them out gunned.  

 

Good luck, a very nice looking Colt Thompson.

 

Sandman1957

Edited by Sandman1957, 11 February 2021 - 03:03 PM.

[guy1074]

Thanks Sandman!

 

I'll try to get some more pics of those specific details you asked about.  The gun is with the customer, so it may take me a few days to get over there.  I don't remember seeing an anchor stamp on the stock when I was inspecting it, and I didn't take the buttplate off during my initial inspection.  I'll post an update once I get more photos.

 

And I was hoping someone would chime in with the original shipping info.  The current owner got it in 1982 from someone associated with the Harris County Sheriff's Office (I believe he said it was the son of one of the higher up command guys there) - so its likely this gun has stayed local to the Houston area it's entire life.

 

Appreciate your insights!

Richard

Houston Arms & Training

sales@houstonarms.com

[TD.]

guy1074,

You have what appears to be a very nice Colt's Model of 1928 NAVY with the two-piece actuator. Sandman suspicions about the butt stock are correct. I can tell from the butt plate and sling swivel the butt stock is most likely from World War II production. That is a big deduction when selling a Colt's but not as big as a refinish or replacement barrel. The butt stock is a bolt on type part so a new owner may find one and make NO 7506 correct again. I would like to see pictures of the bolt from the rear and pictures of the Blish lock from the sides. I am looking for the absence of any letter markings. In addition, I suggest using a bore light and inspecting the inside of the barrel closely for any slight bulges or rings. This is something you can tell prospective buyer you have checked out.

 

Any Sheriff's department provenance you can locate will make NO 7506 more desirable. I lived in Houston for a number of years and can say with authority there are a number of Thompson enthusiasts there. 

 

If interested in selling NO 7506, I suggest posting on the main Thompson forum: 

 

Thompson Submachine Gun Message Board - MachineGunBoards.com Forums

 

There have been a number of unadvertised Colt's sold on this forum over the years.

 

Good luck! 

 

 

[dalbert]

To answer one of your original questions, the oiler is of WWII vintage.  My suggestion is to sell the WWII vintage items separately, as I'm not sure if they are sold with the gun, that there will be a perceptible difference in price overall.  You may get $450-$500 for the drum, and $25 for the oiler separately.  Buy an XX (20-round) Thompson magazine if you don't already have one to go with the gun.

 

The receiver rust is a major condition issue, but likely tied to where this Thompson has lived its life, so perhaps it may add character in the overall legacy.  If it weren't for the Houston Gun Show (Astrohall) back in the day, I would never have ventured into Houston between June and September, but to each their own.  You may find a Houston collector who wants a Harris County Thompson.  I know that department has historically not been a friend of citizens owning Class III, so owning one of their former weapons may appeal to a local.  If you sell it right, the provenance will go a long way on this one.  PM me if you would like to consider a professional sales write-up for this Thompson.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[guy1074]

As requested, I've added more pictures to the Google share: https://drive.google...LF9?usp=sharing

 

The stock does not have an anchor stamp, and the buttplate does not have any "R" stamps.  The buttplate metal and the wood stock have matching numbers 7698 stamped on them.

 

From my limited knowledge, I've heard that many times PD guns can have accessories and such (like this stock) swapped around during cleaning or inventory.  And with the oiler being stored in the stock, it makes sense that the entire stock assembly is WWII vintage.  I'd speculate there's some WWII era Thompson from HCSO out there with a nice Colt stock on it!

 

I also added more pics of the bolt, actuator, and blish lock.  I did not see any markings or stamps on those parts - not sure what machining details to look at to tell Colt from later production parts.

 

Thanks to everyone for your valuable input so far!

 

Richard

Houston Arms & Training

sales@houstonarms.com