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Mailing a Machine gun via REGISTERED MAIL

Registered mail mailing a machine gun

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#1 Sandman1957

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:50 PM

Gents, Just had a Post Office refuse to accept a Thompson from the seller to me.  The seller is not familiar with all this and I told her to go home and I would send more info and she can go back to a different post office on another day.  I plan to go to the Post Office where I live, and ask to see their regs so I can look it up, Take a photo of it, and send them to the seller, so she can have that info handy.

 

She did have a copy of my FFL-03.  Also had a copy inside the package.

 

For clarification she is a private citizen, Not a dealer, nor am I.  However I do have a FFL-03 Curio and Relics Collector.

 

By chance does anyone here has Chapter and Verse on the regulation already?

 

Thanks in advance,

Sandman1957


Edited by Sandman1957, 22 February 2021 - 10:30 PM.

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#2 inertord

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 07:18 PM

Keep hitting the Next Button at bottom of page(s):

https://pe.usps.com/...pub52c4_008.htm
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#3 Robert Henley

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 08:07 PM

It's been several years ago, but I recall some discussion on the Board about shipping a handgun versus a rifle.  As I recall, the barrel of a Thompson fell into the handgun category.  Further, some discussion about only dealers could ship handguns via the USPS.

 

Based on the above, I had a C&R Beretta 38/42 shipped to me via FedEx a number of years ago from a private seller (it was around the same time as the above noted post).

 

My memory is somewhat vague on the specific details because it's been awhile, but I do remember having the above noted gun shipped to me via FedEx because of the issue.

 

Perhaps if you search the Board it will pop up.  If I get a chance I may look back just out of curiosity.

 

Robert


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#4 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 08:09 PM

If sending registered Mail The entire package has to be covered in brown paper tape so they can put postmarks all over it. That way they can tell if its been tampered with. One advantage to registered mail is the amount of insurance that is included. 

Many POs don't know their own procedures for mailing firearms.


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#5 Robert Henley

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 08:16 PM

I believe the following link was the thread I was recalling:

 

Shipping NFA? - Class III Forum - MachineGunBoards.com Forums

 

I didn't re-read it all but there may be something noteworthy in it if you're researching the issue.  I do recall that RT updated the FedEx insurance amount on the Board FAQ page (which you might want to study too if you haven't already).

 

Edit Addition: See the Browsin post in the thread.


Edited by Robert Henley, 22 February 2021 - 08:19 PM.

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#6 Sandman1957

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 10:20 PM

The Lone Ranger summed it up best:  My comments in RED
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Begin The Lone Ranger Comments--------------------------------------------------------------------
 

GCA/NFA definitions are irrelevant for postal regulations - two completely different realms and not interchangeable.  USPS does not address Machineguns.  They say who can ship pistols,  FFL Dealers etc... Rifles and shotguns to themselves or to FFL - Dealers, C&Rs to C&Rs.  (which excludes Non C&Rs to ship a C&R firearm to a licensed C&R???) 

I am puzzled at how a 16 in barreled Thompson is a rifle but a 10.5 in barreled Thompson is not a short barreled rifle using the postal definitions. I couldn't find anything that exempted a firearm from the definition of SBS/SBR based on it's firing mechanism. (Obviously that doesn't mean said exemption isn't there - I just can't see it). Based on that premise, a full auto MAC (shoulder stocked) is not "concealable" due to firing more than one shot with a single function of the trigger, correct?

I wouldn't worry so much about prosecution as refusal to reimburse for damage, theft, or loss. If you fully inform the employee as to what you are shipping and the shipment is processed, seems like your "intent" to commit a violation is questionable. If you tell the employee the package contains tractor parts when it has a concealable firearm that is otherwise not mailable that could be problematic.  My experience is some Post Offices have shipped Thompson's to me and for me, and others have not.  
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------     End The Lone Ranger Comments      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

While I have not had problems with USPS for the most part, I am concerned about the implying its a long gun.  Government bureaucracy at its finest.  BATFE rules and regs are not followed by the USPS.  Although the USPS does mention NFA, it does not recognize it in their categories that can be mailed.  Although some Post Offices regularly do ship them!!  


Edited by Sandman1957, 22 February 2021 - 10:32 PM.

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#7 RoscoeTurner

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:47 AM


Be sure to ask for registered Priority Mail which provides for a greater amount of insurance over standard registered mail.

https://www.staples..../product_468231


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#8 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:51 AM

My text does say brown paper tape, not brown paper...


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#9 TSMGguy

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:54 AM

When asked to declare contents for a registered mail class 3 shipment, I just put "antique firearm" or "firearms parts". I've never had a machinegun shipment refused. Right, heavy cardboard with paper tapes that will accept anti-tampering stamps. 


Edited by TSMGguy, 23 February 2021 - 12:08 PM.

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#10 RoscoeTurner

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 09:02 AM

My text does say brown paper tape, not brown paper...



Sorry, was in a hurry and misread it.


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#11 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:03 PM

My experience with a USPS claim on a firearm is that not only do they not pay them, they wouldn't even refund the shipping after atf retrieved it from the postal police since it only made it half way before being stolen.  ATF uses fedex......and laughed when I brought up completing the shipment via USPS.

Priority registered may increase your insurance, but it has no effect on delivery speed which in good times takes 5-8 business days for 800 mi.    These days I have no idea?  Got a priority box yesterday that said delivery guaranteed by  2/16.  

Shipped a shotgun priority last week. Delivery was supposed to be Friday (3 day priority), but it showed up today.   Buyers request.

 

Get an account with a legitimate shipper and do return shipments next day or second day and if your an ffl look into having your bus. policy cover the insurance.  RIA and other auction houses sometimes use private couriers, fedex and ups.


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#12 Grasshopper

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 11:04 PM

Hi All,

 

FWIW, from my read USPS doesn't care what you call it.  USPS doesn't care what BATF calls it.  If it falls under USPS readily concealable per USPS rules you can't ship it w/o an FFL.  USPS does not recognize a C&R Collectors License as an FFL.

 

I've wanted to ship Thompsons USPS Registered & Insured but have ended up paying a bunch for FedEx.  M16's & other non concealable (by USPS rules) have shipped w/o a hitch.

 

I've been wrong before.  May be wrong again.

 

Always learning,

 

Grasshopper


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#13 Sandman1957

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 08:00 AM

FEDEX it is,  This is Sandy Jones' (OCM) "Whitey Bulger" gun.  Don't want Karen Jumping through anymore hoops.  We need to update the pinned info that more clearly states what USPS says.

For Individuals (Non-FFL Manufacturers, Dealers, Govt agencies and certain cases Military)

1.  They DO NOT ALLOW Machineguns, only pistols by FFL Manufacturers, Dealers, Govt agencies and certain cases Military. NONE BY individuals, unless being shipped to one of the above categories.

2.  The DO ALLOW Shotguns and Rifles, but NOT SBRs, SBSs.

3.  Telling them a Machinegun is a "long gun" can put you at risk for breaking Postal Regulations.  Which in today's climate is much more likely to have a bad outcome.  My opinion only: At a minimum, seizure of the NFA item and likely prosecution.
 
This is how I have shipped in the "Past" with assurance from the local Post Office it was ok, I told them exactly what was being shipped.  First time I've had drama, but per their regulations it looks like the Post Masters were being generous at the local level.

Edited by Sandman1957, 24 February 2021 - 08:26 AM.

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#14 CaribRadDoc

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 06:05 PM

Sandman,

 

I'm happy that you are finally going to have a Colt Back in your Stable, and a unique one at that!  I know you haven't been able to sleep soundly at night since April, when you let your last one go to a good home!

 

Cheers,

Andy


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#15 Sandman1957

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 10:45 PM

You are absolutely correct.  You caught me in a weak moment!!


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#16 APEXgunparts

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 11:34 AM

Shipping FedEx?  APEX has a good relationship with FedEx and we have a great local rep.
Look at this chart (not sure if it it still current)
 

https://d3ciwvs59ifr...bdf61c8e285.pdf

 

APEX also does a lot with UPS and we have a good local rep.

UPS will ship firearms, but NOT machineguns:

https://www.ups.com/...s/firearms.page

 

"UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment. Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. UPS Returns® Services are not available for packages containing firearms."
 

There is no way to insure an item they state that they will not ship.
FedEx will ship 2nd day air or Priority overnight with an insured value up to $50K (you have to declare and pay for the coverage otherwise they only pay $1K)
You can't ship from a FedEx store as those are contractors and cannot handle firearms, those most be done at an actual FedEx counter.
Also, you should be able to go on-line and arrange for FedEx to collect the package from your residence.

 

Here is the "rules" about Firearms from the FedEx web site:

Firearms A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box. Firearms shipments are not eligible to be held at Hold at Location facilities.

D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
G. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

Richard


Edited by APEXgunparts, 05 March 2021 - 11:37 AM.

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