WARNING! R. Wagner on Gunbroker

[reconbob]

I have never done this before, but after myself and a good friend of mine

had problems I figured I'd warn my fellow Thompson enthusiasts about

"R. Wagner" who advertises and sells Thompson parts at very low prices

on Gunbroker..

 

R. Wagner, who's name appears to be "Diego" on his emails is directly

or indirectly selling Thompson parts which get shipped from the Russian

Federation. He uses Paypal and Western Union to receive payment.

 

The problem is that all of his parts are advertised as being "New" or

"New Old Stock" condition, when in fact many of the parts are badly

rusted. He sells the parts "as-is" with no returns accepted, but it would

not be possible to return them anyway since he is is Russia.

 

Here is one of his Gunbroker auctions

 

 

Below are pictures of two actuators and a safety lever. These were represented

as "New Old Stock". Note that the ball knob of the one actuator is so badly rusted

that it has lost its shape!

 

I have purchased two batches of parts from "Diego" and I would say about

half of them were rusty when they were degreased. I confronted "Diego" with

the fact that the parts wer not "New Old Stock". He is profusely polite, kind, and

cooperative in his emails, the bottom line is - you are stuck with the parts.

 

Caveat Emptor

 

Bob

[mgvince]

Thanks Bob. It’s always a gamble buying from overseas.

[TD.]

Bob,

I agree with mgvince. Purchasing anything overseas is a gamble. That said, I would not hesitate to leave negative feedback espousing much of what you have relayed to this forum on gunbroker.com. That way potential future customers will know the dangers with this seller. Those are ugly parts!

 

Thank you for your post.

[inertord]

Appropriate feedback would be a good warning to others, he currently has A+ Seller Feedback: https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/3964820

[MACMAN]

Maybe notify PayPal that he is using his account for Gun Stuff.

[ppgcowboy]

That's like going to the police and complaining about being ripped off by a drug dealer. You both used paypal.

[LSU Tiger]

I've fewer good results than bad when dealing with overseas sellers. His nickel plated M1 bolt appears to be rusty as well. At first I thought it was old grease.

[Ron Mills]

Thanks Bob. These guys have no shame obviously.

I can only imagine if he would advertise "PPSh41, 80%, beautiful patina":

 

[StrangeRanger]

Appropriate feedback would be a good warning to others, he currently has A+ Seller Feedback: https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/3964820

 

I have found out much to my regret that GB ratings are essentially meaningless. You have to drill down a level and read the actual feedback in order to find out whether or not you are dealing with a disreputable seller

[reconbob]

I will add this - if you are using Paypal for ANYTHING gun related at any

time they can (and will) terminate your account and KEEP any money you

have with them as a penalty for a violation of their terms of service. Maybe

10+ years ago a guy falsely accused me of selling gun parts - which I was

not - it was a revenge thing on Ebay. Paypal terminated me for life - no

appeal, no way to correct anything. (Their customer "support" at the time

was in India and the people barely understood English. Years went by and

I was able to get active again with a different credit card. They

let me run up the tab to $850 then they suddenly discovered it was me

again and kept all of the $850 since I had violated their terms of service.

 

Bob

[Got Uzi]

I never let money sit in my PayPal for that reason. Soon as it hits my account its been transferred. Im not selling gun parts my family and friends all over the county are paying me back recreational items I found for them.

[Tiz]

I avoid PaPal like the plague. They are very anti-second amendment. Why the hell would any gun owner use PayPal when so many other options are available.

[maxfaxdude]

I will add this - if you are using Paypal for ANYTHING gun related at any

time they can (and will) terminate your account and KEEP any money you

have with them as a penalty for a violation of their terms of service. Maybe

10+ years ago a guy falsely accused me of selling gun parts - which I was

not - it was a revenge thing on Ebay. Paypal terminated me for life - no

appeal, no way to correct anything. (Their customer "support" at the time

was in India and the people barely understood English. Years went by and

I was able to get active again with a different credit card. They

let me run up the tab to $850 then they suddenly discovered it was me

again and kept all of the $850 since I had violated their terms of service.

 

Bob

This is just one of the reasons why I've NEVER used Paypal for anything and I NEVER will!

[DZelenka]

PayPal and Venmo cancelled my accounts on the same day for "Violating their terms of service"> They told me they could not provide me with further information because it was a "trade secret." I had been very diligent about transferring money from PayPal to a bank account set up solely for that reason. Money was then transferred to my regular business account. There was nothing for them to seize or hold on to. Oh well. I invoice through QuickBooks now and it has works like a charm. It also helps my book keeping.

 

Dan

[DZelenka]

I avoid PaPal like the plague. They are very anti-second amendment. Why the hell would any gun owner use PayPal when so many other options are available.

What other options?

[maxfaxdude]

 

I avoid PaPal like the plague. They are very anti-second amendment. Why the hell would any gun owner use PayPal when so many other options are available.

What other options?

1) Cash

2) Personal check

3) Money Order

4) Cashier's check

5) Bitcoin

6) Credit card

7) Debit Card

8) Trade

9) Bank wire

Edited January 26, 2021 by maxfaxdude

[Tiz]

 

 

I avoid PaPal like the plague. They are very anti-second amendment. Why the hell would any gun owner use PayPal when so many other options are available.

What other options?

1) Cash

2) Personal check

3) Money Order

4) Cashier's check

5) Bitcoin

6) Credit card

7) Debit Card

8) Trade

9) Bank wire

Thank You. Do some people really think that the only way to do business is by using PaPal? How about electronic transfer as well. My kids use it all the time. My youngest son who is 42 has never set foot inside a brick and mortar bank. There are a lot of ways to cut PaPal out of the equation and avoid there fees that fuel their support of gun control. Screw the Silicon Valley pricks.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

 

 

I avoid PaPal like the plague. They are very anti-second amendment. Why the hell would any gun owner use PayPal when so many other options are available.

What other options?

1) Cash

2) Personal check

3) Money Order

4) Cashier's check

5) Bitcoin

6) Credit card

7) Debit Card

8) Trade

9) Bank wire

 

Let's examine the practicality and convenience of these options.

1) Sending cash in an envelope with a stamp through USPS is folly at best. If it is lost or stolen you are left holding the bag and of course there is no method to ensure if it was received other than the word of the recipient. If you send it Certified USPS, you probably went to the post office and stood in line. You might as well send a USPS money order.

 

2) Personal Check: Ok. But that is dependent upon the seller accepting that method and whether they will ship upon receipt or wait to check clears.

 

3). Money Order, which usually means USPS money order, requires a trip to the post office and standing in line. Not the most prudent option with Wuhan virus now.

 

4) Cashier's Check, requires going to your bank and dealing with the same issues as a post office.

 

5) Bitcoin......Not sure how many sellers are using that option.

 

6) Credit Card, private sellers usually are not set up for that type of payment.

 

7) Debit Card, see above.

 

8) Trade, great if you have something the seller wants in exchange for what you want.

 

9) Bank Wire, that method is usually left for very high priced items. Of course sharing bank information and routing numbers is risky considering hacking.

 

All of your options entail some risk and inconvenience. As BidPay was forced out of business decades ago, that leaves PayPal. Have they gone on record as being anti Second Amendment? Sure, but so has Walmart, Kroger, Dick Sporting Goods, and L.L. Bean, who have made the decision not to retail firearms. What has their virtue signaling cost them? Boycotts?

 

Not sure following the liberal model of cancel culture to protest businesses that no longer share one's ideology like PayPal pays off other than just limiting one's options to make transactions easier and quicker.

 

Try eliminating China manufactured products from your life to protest Wuhan virus. Next time you go to Costco/Lowes/Home Depot, try to find items not made there.

[Tiz]

I understand you trying to defend your previous statement "what options" but your reasoning is pretty lame. I have no problem with getting a money order at the local post office, a cashiers check at the bank or sending a personal check as payment. Most banks clear a personal check in 48 hours or less these days. Personally I have been screwed by PayPal at least 3 times so I learned my lesson. As for adopting cancel culture that is not what I advocate or what I am doing. I just choose to support small business. I have probably been in Walmart a total of 10 times in my entire life. I do not buy from Dicks, L.L. Bean, or Kroger. We shop at a locally owned super market who's owner is an avid sportsman and gun owner. I support our local hardware store, lumber yard, sporting goods store etc. I avoid the big box stores whenever I can although admittedly sometimes that is not possible. Maybe you should have stopped to think before you posted " what options".

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Maybe you should have stopped to think before you posted " what options".

 

As the above post #18 is my first in this thread, you have me confused with DZelenka's reasonable query about why forsake PayPal. Could you elaborate on these PayPal "screwings" you endured and why you would have continued after the first screw?

 

It is your decision on which methods you use to send and receive funds and which businesses you wish to frequent, but others may not wish to follow your exemplar. Their reasons are no less valid than your personal reasons.

 

Have you ever done business with an FFL, who sells C&R firearms, but refuses to honor a type 03 C&R FFL? It's not as if pro gun establishments have not themselves instituted policies that are unfriendly to perspective firearm buyers.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Arthur Fliegenheimer

[johnsonlmg41]

I've done 7 of 9. Done a good amount of #1, because if you don't trust the seller you shouldn't be doing the deal anyhow. Next day envelopes fedex, ups, usps easily hold 10k or more without an issue. Hundreds of millions are sent daily. I rarely do cashiers checks as they've gotten expensive and they are easy for a buyer to go back and stop payment, so I'm not a fan. Have a couple personal checks coming this week, one buyer has references, the other will be waiting a while anyhow, even though he has zero references time is on my side. Banks do NOT clear personal checks in 48hrs, often they will submit it several times for payment which can take a couple weeks. Been there done that. DA's will not prosecute and will tell you to go to small claims court as it's a civil matter.

 

Probably doing a wire this week....overseas, fairly expensive, you're not sharing your routing numbers with the world, and initiating a wire from my account is a major project, multiple ID's and multifactor authentication or in person. I only bank on one computer with no apps, behind a firewall (probably 3% secure). If you bank on a phone....LOL

 

I do PMO's and walmart MO's, because they're the only ones that have money (walmart, not the PO) Plenty of fake PMO's and I've only had a problem once where the bank teller keyed in the PMO info incorrectly....twice.

 

I do CC through paypal and invoice them.....never a problem....yet. Occasionally do paypal, not because I'm a fan, but because it's convenient and can be fee-less, but the other party can't be an idiot (thus we can eliminate 85 mil + Americans)

 

Curious about bitcoin, all I hear is that it fluctuates wildly and fee's can be high. Anyone with any experience please share, I'd like to learn more about the process, how you buy sell and convert?

 

As noted every option holds some risk and banks get hacked ALL the time (you just don't hear about it). If it's not air-gapped it gets hacked. Every transaction is a one-off requiring due diligence in all aspects and generally payment type is the least risky part of the transaction. I've had 100% success with overseas vendors, but I've not done any deals with the Russians and very few with Comm bloc countries where a lot of fake items come from......that's too risky for me!

FTF cash can never be beat!!

[Tiz]

Registered Mail is very secure for sending anything including cash. When Harry Winston donated the Hope Diamond to the Smithsonian he sent it registered mail, nothing much more valuable than that. As far as banks clearing checks, many can and do clear checks electronically in as little as 48 hours sometimes a bit longer probably depends on the bank.

[bradhe]

Arthur has it mostly right in my view. (I used to be the CFO of a $20B bank). A few additional thoughts

Let's examine the practicality and convenience of these options.

1) Sending cash in an envelope with a stamp through USPS is folly at best. If it is lost or stolen you are left holding the bag and of course there is no method to ensure if it was received other than the word of the recipient. If you send it Certified USPS, you probably went to the post office and stood in line. You might as well send a USPS money order. [YES]

2) Personal Check: Ok. But that is dependent upon the seller accepting that method and whether they will ship upon receipt or wait to check clears. [really takes 2 weeks to make sure it actually clears]

3). Money Order, which usually means USPS money order, requires a trip to the post office and standing in line. Not the most prudent option with Wuhan virus now.

4) Cashier's Check, requires going to your bank and dealing with the same issues as a post office.

5) Bitcoin......Not sure how many sellers are using that option. [highly volatile, difficult to transact, not really used as a means of exchange except for drug deals today]

6) Credit Card, private sellers usually are not set up for that type of payment.

7) Debit Card, see above.

8) Trade, great if you have something the seller wants in exchange for what you want.

9) Bank Wire, that method is usually left for very high priced items. Of course sharing bank information and routing numbers is risky considering hacking. [this can be done for any amount, though check for fees on each end depending on the bank. The only information you need to share are the name and numbers on your check. Most people write checks to lots of strangers all the time.]

Finally, I will second the notion that registered mail is VERY secure. Only issue to remember is you must use only paper tape on every seam on the box if you want to insure for any significant amount]

[ppgcowboy]

Cashiers check.....my bank issues them at no charge at the drive up window. What is the difference in waiting in line at the post office vs the grocery store? Plus while in line you can fart and strike up the conversation of if you can smell it, this silly mask isn't working.

[DZelenka]

 

Maybe you should have stopped to think before you posted " what options".

 

As the above post #18 is my first in this thread, you have me confused with DZelenka's reasonable query about why forsake PayPal. Could you elaborate on these PayPal "screwings" you endured and why you would have continued after the first screw?

 

It is your decision on which methods you use to send and receive funds and which businesses you wish to frequent, but others may not wish to follow your exemplar. Their reasons are no less valid than your personal reasons.

 

Have you ever done business with an FFL, who sells C&R firearms, but refuses to honor a type 03 C&R FFL? It's not as if pro gun establishments have not themselves instituted policies that are unfriendly to perspective firearm buyers.

 

It was my question of What options? PayPal is out for me because it closed my account for selling firearms and firearm accessories. I can take credit cards or ACH otherwise, people have to send money orders or cashier's checks to buy from me.

 

Dan