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M1 Bolt w/ Fixed Firing Pin


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Hi I have a complete USGI M1A1 unissued parts kit coming (everything but the receiver). The seller told me that this kit contained an M1 style bolt but with a fixed firing pin. He stated that this style were only manufactured for about a year. Its def an M1 style bolt as it has the lower hole with the hammer and pin in it. Does anyone have any history info of this style bolt as I was with the understanding that M1 bolts always had the free floating firing pin.

 

Thanks !

 

 

Edited by signal_4
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If the firing pin is machined into the front of the bolt face, there would be nothing for the hammer to hit when the bolt went forward. Very strange, though. Possibly experimental? But it does beg the question of why bother with the extra work to machine for the hammer in the first place.

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The first M1 Thompsons had a 1928 style bolt with a firing pin and hammer and worked the same way . After about a year they modified the bolt to a fixed firing pin set up . The firing pin , hammer , and cross pin were done away with and replaced by a bump on the bolt face . The designation was changed to M1A1 at that time . You have a M1 , not a M1A1 , no matter what the markings say :happy: Chris

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Nice ! Thank you Frank and emmagee1917. The bolt is marked with an S for Savage. Frank do you have this book by chance and can take a pic of the description ? Yes I'll take more detailed pics once the kit arrives.

 

On 1/6/2022 at 11:17 AM, giantpanda4 said:

Could we get more detailed pics of the bolt face?

 

 

On 1/5/2022 at 5:48 PM, emmagee1917 said:

The first M1 Thompsons had a 1928 style bolt with a firing pin and hammer and worked the same way . After about a year they modified the bolt to a fixed firing pin set up . The firing pin , hammer , and cross pin were done away with and replaced by a bump on the bolt face . The designation was changed to M1A1 at that time . You have a M1 , not a M1A1 , no matter what the markings say :happy: Chris

 

 

On 1/6/2022 at 8:28 AM, Frank Iannamico said:

Modified fixed firing pin M1 bolts were made by Savage. I found documents at the National Archives II describing the experimental bolt.

Details of such a bolt are described on page 168 in American Thunder III.

 

 

Edited by signal_4
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No expert here, but the M1A1 example here came with a fixed firing pin which I understand was part of the process of making wartime production faster and cheaper and I was told it is an "M1A1 bolt".

A youtube featuring some old crusty fella whose name I cannot recall recommended acquiring a non-fixed firing pin bolt to use in M1A1's as it eliminates the very tiny possibility of an out-of-battery firing. This makes sense when you look at how the non-fixed firing pin bolts operate.

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If it is one of the experimental bolts described by Frank, it would be a desirable collector's item.

But, it would also be difficult to understand why they would install the hammer and pin in such a bolt.

 

Wondering if just maybe the firing pin is so locked in place with dried cosmoline -that the seller just assumed it is a fixed FP?

 

I just got a cosmoline frozen safety lever unstuck on a FN49; -don't think superglue or epoxy could have fastened it in place any better.

 

Will look forward to the OP's detailed photos after he receives the kit.

Edited by mnshooter
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Nice ! Thank you Frank and emmagee1917. The bolt is marked with an S for Savage. Frank do you have this book by chance and can take a pic of the description ? Yes I'll take more detailed pics once the kit arrives.

 

 

Could we get more detailed pics of the bolt face?

The first M1 Thompsons had a 1928 style bolt with a firing pin and hammer and worked the same way . After about a year they modified the bolt to a fixed firing pin set up . The firing pin , hammer , and cross pin were done away with and replaced by a bump on the bolt face . The designation was changed to M1A1 at that time . You have a M1 , not a M1A1 , no matter what the markings say :happy: Chris

Modified fixed firing pin M1 bolts were made by Savage. I found documents at the National Archives II describing the experimental bolt.

Details of such a bolt are described on page 168 in American Thunder III.

Frank probably does have the book as he is the author. It may be a good idea to pickup a copy if you are interested in WWII Thompsons to support the research done by those who author books and share their findings. $40 isnt much when youre buying $1500 parts kits or $30k guns.

 

Ron

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When you get the parts it will be interesting to

see if the bolt is an M1 bolt with the separate firing pin that has had the firing pin blocked in the forward position, or an M1A1 bolt with the firing pin machined into the face of the bolt.

 

Back years ago (1970s - 1980s) when Thompsons were only $1000 - $2000 there was

a trend by some to attempt to increase the rate of fire regardless of harmful effects to the gun.

One of these modifications was to block or fix

the hammer on the bolt so that it became a fixed

firing pin. Perhaps that is what this is.

 

While anything is possible I think it is a real long

shot that this parts set has a rare/experimental

bolt,but let us know.

 

Bob

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I think Bob makes an excellent point. Although, the wood is wrapped to make it look "all brand new", the rear grip appears to have been refinished and sanded. The front of the grip should met the rear corners of the trigger guard. There is a noticeable gap in your pictures, almost always an indication of sanding. The light blond color of the wood also makes me suspect refinishing. It will be interesting to see what type of bolt comes with the parts.

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Hi all ! I got the parts kit yesterday ! All the pieces do look brand new.... the wrapping is some kind of waxed or greases canvas or so it feels and smells. This is the company I got it from as they just released another parts kit yesterday

 

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/new-items/123021-18.html

 

Here are pics of the bolt

 

Has any ever seen someone one selling a transferable form 4 receiver ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by signal_4
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Hi all ! I got the parts kit yesterday ! All the pieces do look brand new.... the wrapping is some kind of waxed or greases canvas or so it feels and smells. This is the company I got it from as they just released another parts kit yesterday

 

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/new-items/123021-18.html

 

Here are pics of the bolt

 

Has any ever seen someone one selling a transferable form 4 receiver ?

The bolt doesn't appear to have a fixed firing pin in your pictures since the photo you posted of the front of the bolt shows the firing pin retracted. It appears to be a normal M1 bolt. Usually the replacement bolts were blued, the original type were nickel colored. The wood is appears to be New Old Stock (NOS) wood repacked for long term storage after the war. Usually, there is a sticker on the wrapping indicating the part number and the date of packaging. The barrel appears to also be a post WWII re-packaging, which usually indicates a NOS barrel. That is nice to have, but those parts were not originally on that grip frame. The kit is nice but is put together from various parts sources, it wasn't originally a complete gun. Thanks for posting the additional photos.

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Its a typical M1 bolt with a moving firing pin.

Its not new, but possibly disassembled from the gun whose serial number appears on the trigger frame.

The pistol grip has been sanded , as others stated, and doesn't line up with frame.

I suspect the metal parts have been hot blued.

You will not find a transferable receiver for sale. If someone had one he would have already combined it with a parts kit like yours.

Jim C

Edited by jim c 351
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Ok thanks for the info ! Im going to message them and inquire cause this is what I was told.

 

Yes the firing pin is included. I'm told this is a m1 bolt with a fixed firing pin like an Uzi. This is actually more scarce because they only made them this way for 1 year.

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OK - I dont get it. You have a couple of photos taken from the rear of the bolt looking down into the hole for the recoil spring. That hole should go clear thru to the hole for the bolt handle but in the photos there is a silver colored object with a serrated surface 1/2 way (or less) down the hole which would prevent you from installing the recoil spring. Is this object loose? Does it fall out on its own? Or is it stuck in there?

 

Also, am I out of touch and behind the times? Is $3600 the going/fair price for an M1/M1A1 parts set? I would have thought $2000-ish.,,

 

Bob

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OK - I dont get it. You have a couple of photos taken from the rear of the bolt looking down into the hole for the recoil spring. That hole should go clear thru to the hole for the bolt handle but in the photos there is a silver colored object with a serrated surface 1/2 way (or less) down the hole which would prevent you from installing the recoil spring. Is this object loose? Does it fall out on its own? Or is it stuck in there?

 

Also, am I out of touch and behind the times? Is $3600 the going/fair price for an M1/M1A1 parts set? I would have thought $2000-ish.,,

 

Bob

 

Hello Bob ! That piece is the hammer . I guess the picture makes it look close. Is the pin holding the hammer easily removed ? Does it just push in and out ?

 

Ya I guess complete unused parts kits are going for that. Ive seen recent partial ones on Gun Broker that are very used shape for $2000

Look at this one lol

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/920947265

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OK. Yes, the hammer pin should easily push out of its hole.

You may need a punch (push by hand, no hammer) to get it started but it should come out easily.

 

If that piece I referred to as serrated is the hammer it

is damaged because all of the surfaces should be smooth.

 

And thanks for the info on the price/value of the parts

sets!

 

Bob

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