Thompsonlover Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Many of you guys know I am looking for a Thompson and this was discussed on another thread. One dealer I am in contact with stated he has 2 M1 dewats that are being activated by Bob Naes. He is a well known restorer of vintage machine guns. The guns in question are not rewelds, but were deactivated by putting a plug in the chamber and a spot weld to keep someone from changing barrels. Bob Naes removes the weld and knocks out the plug. When he is finished with them you can’t tell anything was done to them. He polishes the chambers like new. I know Dewats are worth less but how much if you can't tell they have been worked on? How many guns are out there were former Dewats? He didn't mention a price but said they would be reasonable. How can one tell if a gun has been reactivated if it was professionally done? Would a check in the ATF records show it was an reactivated? Would this type of gun just be considered a shooter and not have much collector value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG08 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 It depends on what you are after - want a shooter ? Bob's work is top notch. Want a collector original gun ? A REWAT might work. It is original, with an original barrel, might meet your needs. I would not hesitate to buy a REWAT, but I shoot them. If you keep it, then it won't matter. If you sell it, make sure it is represented correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgvince Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 A lot of the REWATs that I have looked at, were priced right about the same as everything else. Are they worth the same? I don't know, but I didn't pay the price for them.Just being transferable, will bring the price up. But you will have to make that final decision. It's tough, I know. I went thru the same things that you are going thru. Just keep looking for the gun you really want. You will be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I would not buy a rewat to me the price difference isn't enough to justify it. even if the gunsmithing work is well done you don't know what kind of torture the gun was put thru to dewat it I don't think that a rewat would be considered a collector piece by any normal collector unless it was a super duper rare gun it would a shooter just keep looking for what you really truly want, you'll have it in your hands soon enough Edited May 20, 2015 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It is all about how it was dewatted and who did the rewat work. I would certainly buy one, I have two rewatted guns. I did the work - so I can answer that part of the question. The dewatting should be obvious when up see the gun prior to rewatting, what was done to it. If it is already rewatted, that is harder to tell, But if it is from a reputable Thompson smith, I do not see any issues. I guess there might be some people who only buy Colts too. But given that this may well be the only gun you have, a rewat is always a fine shooter and should be priced accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifthmdec Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Many of the WWII subguns were dewats that were brought back as war trophies. Lots made it to places like CA as it is the only way you can own NFA without a permit from the state, and that is impossible, mind you a few exeptions. We do not have any rewat thompsons that we know of, a FOIA request should have that info if it was a rewat by looking at the forms. Rewats are fine and in our experience, we have purchased several WWII NFA that were reactivated. In fact we have purchased several Form 5 dewats from collectors in CA over the years. Have fun and do not let the rewat be a stigma... Edited May 21, 2015 by fifthmdec 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 When I bought my Savage M1 back in 2013, it was what I'd call typical. Parkerized, grinded on before that was done due to pitting. After I sent it to a particularly keen Thompsonsmith, I found out it had been a REWAT. A pin had been placed into the chamber from underneath the grip mount. Most of the pin had been previously removed (probably from within the chamber). He even sent me what was left of the "nail" put in place to block the chamber. No way to tell looking at the gun, and didn't detract from the value any (in my case). Of course, it (the DEWAT) was minimally invasive. Doesn't bother me any. I took a lot of artistic license with the gun to make it factory new looking. Great gun, get lots of compliments on it. Fun as Hell to shoot, and I am proud for what the gun represents. I was also advised that many, many M1's over here were DEWAT'd at one time. Pretty common. When REWAT'd properly, hard to tell it was ever deactivated in the first place. For what that's worth. CG http://www.pbase.com/darklightimagery/savage_m1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) It depends on what you are after - want a shooter ? Bob's work is top notch. Want a collector original gun ? A REWAT might work. It is original, with an original barrel, might meet your needs. I would not hesitate to buy a REWAT, but I shoot them. If you keep it, then it won't matter. If you sell it, make sure it is represented correctly. I kinda of want both .... is that possible?? I want it as original as possible and I don't plan on selling any Thompson that I purchase. I really don't want a gun too mint that I don't want tot shoot it. I have that situation already. I own a very rare muscle car 1 of 801 built, matching numbers, frame-off restored and because of that I don't drive it much. If I had to do it over again I would buy a driver quality car and not worry about it. I'll have to wait to see how it looks and what the price tag is. They won't be ready for a few months. Edited May 21, 2015 by Thompsonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 A lot of the REWATs that I have looked at, were priced right about the same as everything else. Are they worth the same? I don't know, but I didn't pay the price for them.Just being transferable, will bring the price up. But you will have to make that final decision. It's tough, I know. I went thru the same things that you are going thru. Just keep looking for the gun you really want. You will be much happier. Vince what did you end of buying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I would not buy a rewat to me the price difference isn't enough to justify it. even if the gunsmithing work is well done you don't know what kind of torture the gun was put thru to dewat it I don't think that a rewat would be considered a collector piece by any normal collector unless it was a super duper rare gun it would a shooter just keep looking for what you really truly want, you'll have it in your hands soon enoughI see your points Buzz. I wonder if the restorer Bob takes before and after pics so someone can see how bad it was dewated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't think there is an M1 on the consumer market "too mint that I don't want to shoot it.". R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I buy it in a heartbeat if it runs good and is priced accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It is all about how it was dewatted and who did the rewat work. I would certainly buy one, I have two rewatted guns. I did the work - so I can answer that part of the question. The dewatting should be obvious when up see the gun prior to rewatting, what was done to it. If it is already rewatted, that is harder to tell, But if it is from a reputable Thompson smith, I do not see any issues. I guess there might be some people who only buy Colts too. But given that this may well be the only gun you have, a rewat is always a fine shooter and should be priced accordingly.How was your gun dewated? Like the ones I am looking at deactivated by putting a plug in the chamber and a spot weld to keep someone from changing barrels. I was told this was the method done in the 50's. These guns are just options I guess. Still going to be looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I buy it in a heartbeat if it runs good and is priced accordingly.Especially if it looks original and the price is right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 When I bought my Savage M1 back in 2013, it was what I'd call typical. Parkerized, grinded on before that was done due to pitting. After I sent it to a particularly keen Thompsonsmith, I found out it had been a REWAT. A pin had been placed into the chamber from underneath the grip mount. Most of the pin had been previously removed (probably from within the chamber). He even sent me what was left of the "nail" put in place to block the chamber. No way to tell looking at the gun, and didn't detract from the value any (in my case). Of course, it (the DEWAT) was minimally invasive. Doesn't bother me any. I took a lot of artistic license with the gun to make it factory new looking. Great gun, get lots of compliments on it. Fun as Hell to shoot, and I am proud for what the gun represents. I was also advised that many, many M1's over here were DEWAT'd at one time. Pretty common. When REWAT'd properly, hard to tell it was ever deactivated in the first place. For what that's worth. CG http://www.pbase.com/darklightimagery/savage_m1Yours is a good example then of a Rewat that turned out good and your happy with. I was thinking the same about many guns out there being former Dewats. By the way I checked out your gun and its a beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Many of the WWII subguns were dewats that were brought back as war trophies. Lots made it to places like CA as it is the only way you can own NFA without a permit from the state, and that is impossible, mind you a few exeptions. We do not have any rewat thompsons that we know of, a FOIA request should have that info if it was a rewat by looking at the forms. Rewats are fine and in our experience, we have purchased several WWII NFA that were reactivated. In fact we have purchased several Form 5 dewats from collectors in CA over the years. Have fun and do not let the rewat be a stigma...Sounds good as long as its not a reweld. I don't care who did the work, its not something I would be interested it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kocapuff1 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think there is nothing wrong at on a REWAT for purchase. As most have already been inclined to say, as long as the process wasn't to in-depth of the DEWAT and it's an actual "Bring home War Trophy", what could be better? I mean an actual DEWAT was a war trophy carried by an actual soldier or marine in combat, that should say a large amount about history... Don't get me wrong a near perfect condition, all original parts Thompson of any of the models would be awesome and great to own, but also you can't say enough about a Thompson that actually went and deployed overseas and was there during WWII or Korea. I would guess to state though that most likely most DEWATs came from WWII. The property books weren't so tight back then... I know some will say "well how do you know if it was or not in the war". Sometimes life is a leap of faith, to me I would buy be a DEWAT/REWAT that definitely shows that condition as it would be carried everyday for a few years or buy a REWAT that is in near new/mint shape, if your going for the shear originality and shape. I would definitely buy a "shooter/collector military Thompson" first and if you can afford a high end original Colt 21 as a "Holiday Shooter/Collector" that would be the best of both worlds. I am more of the rare variety that I love the military History of the Thompson M1s and 1928s and also love the history of the Colt 21s and all the Thompsons. There is just something about it. Best of luck in your endeavors! Have patience to find the "right" one you actually want and buy a shooter/military collector grade first and then if you can endeavor for the iconic 1921 Colt to own also! I wish you the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU Tiger Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) At the Rock Island Auction about a month ago, two DEWAT M1 Thompsons went for $11,500 each. Even spending another $2,000 to REWAT, that's still under current market price. I'd buy one if it's done right. http://www.rockislandauction.com/search/aid/64 Edited May 21, 2015 by LSU Tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunhistorian Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, but a number of years ago I was told by a fellow deeply involved in the firearms business that one of the major purveyors of DEWATS located in a now gun UNfriendly state (the place being out of business and the owner long departed to that great shooting range in the sky) made sure the welds in the DEWATS he sold were easily "knocked out" and not damaging to the heat treatment of the firearm. The specific guns being discussed were STENs which, I believe, were being sold for about $10. The same dealer had M-3 "grease guns" for $50. Don't think he was offering TSMGs but did have MP-43/StG-44 (or 45s?) for the same price as M-3s. Of course, bread was about 15 cents a loaf, gasoline about 26 cents a gallon, and a good annual salary was probably about $5,000 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I just bought two DEWATS I plan to REWAT, not Thompsons. A friend REWATed an M1a1 last year. The one issue I haven't seen discussed is the engraving that is required. As I understand it you now are supposed to engrave the name of the entity doing the REWAT as the ATF now considers it "making". The gun retains C&R status but it now has another name engraved on it. To me that is really the only thing that hurts the value a little.UPDATE-seems there is mixed info on the requirement to engrave a REWAT. I don't want to promote damaging a historic firearm, so don't do it because I said it was required. Get an answer from they ATF or make your own choice. Edited May 21, 2015 by wwiifirearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I haven't seen too many mint condition M1s or M1A1s. In fact I don't think I've ever seen one. They seem like they're mostly arsenal rebuilds My M1A1 is a police marked RIA rebuild, with a typical grey park job. The current price on it would probably be somewhere around $20k I guess I would need a steep discount off that price to consider a rewat. Why would anyone pay the same for a rewat as a non-rewat? I'm aware that some rewats had almost no damage but others had welds right thru the receiver into the barrel threads How would you know without taking the barrel off? My point is that you need to be wary and you should get a discount Edited May 28, 2015 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 The M1a1 REWAT a friend recently did was an arsenal rework. He put a new NOS barrel on it with no issues. I'm not saying there is no difference in value, but the question was "would you buy a REWAT". In this case I would absolutely buy a REWAT if it saved me ~$1000. In fact I would greatly favor a REWAT over a WH, or one that had lots of finish restoration, or one with other condition issues. Obviously if two otherwise identical guns are available at the same price I would choose the most original. However, it wouldn't take much of a price or condition difference for me to choose the REWAT. In fact all things being equal, if the REWAT was in my state and I could get it in 4-6 months instead of waiting 12+ months for an out of state gun to go owner-->Dealer-->Dealer-->me, I'd take the REWAT just to get it faster. If you are talking about an original 1921 Colt, I am sure the impact on value is much greater than it would be on an arsenal rework WWII gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 At the Rock Island Auction about a month ago, two DEWAT M1 Thompsons went for $11,500 each. Even spending another $2,000 to REWAT, that's still under current market price. I'd buy one if it's done right. http://www.rockislandauction.com/search/aid/64There were actually three in that Auction. One was $13,800. A live example in the same auction went for $19,000. The two that went for $11,500 both show serious discoloration at the front of the receiver and one appear to also show some external damage to the front of the receiver. These guns will probably take more than $2000 to make them right, but I would still be happy to own them if I had been the buyer. I'd suggest the buyer get on PK's waiting list (I think I am currently at 50+ months and still patiently waiting for the call to send my Pearl M1A1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 it all comes down to demand and availability, one thing is obvious, what you pay today even if top dollar will sell for more in a few years, they are not making anymore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgvince Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 A lot of the REWATs that I have looked at, were priced right about the same as everything else. Are they worth the same? I don't know, but I didn't pay the price for them.Just being transferable, will bring the price up. But you will have to make that final decision. It's tough, I know. I went thru the same things that you are going thru. Just keep looking for the gun you really want. You will be much happier. Vince what did you end of buying? 1928 Savage PD gun What would you pay for this Savage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now