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Barrow Gang Joplin apartment re-opening!


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Hans-

I don't want to diss Jim Ballou's book. I'm credited in his great book with some information I gave him about the Barrows, but certainly not that information, but I think I know where that information came from. Be aware that Ford V8 sedan is not the same model as the death car ( way different), there are various types of V8 sedans. I'm not saying that it's impossible on this subject but VERY, VERY improbable. In a model B-400 Convertible Sedan ( 2 door) the guns would of had to be loaded from the front passenger side, to the rear seat, going floor to ceiling at various angles like a puzzle, over and around the passengers. Be like a clown car in a circus. If you loaded the guns in first, the people would be doing yoga moves to fit in and around the weapons just to sit. I guess in the heat of the battle this could happen, but I wouldn't gamble on that. They only drove about 70 miles away and stole a larger model Ford V8, so I guess you can make your own conclusions.

 

My thoughts in the past, the guns were transported in Buck's Marmon which where large cars ( Marmons) , BUT where did they go ?

 

Maybe they are stored with Baby Face Nelson's Monitor ?

 

 

OCM

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Hans-

I don't want to diss Jim Ballou's book. I'm credited in his great book with some information I gave him about the Barrows, but certainly not that information, but I think I know where that information came from. Be aware that Ford V8 sedan is not the same model as the death car ( way different), there are various types of V8 sedans. I'm not saying that it's impossible on this subject but VERY, VERY improbable. In a model B-400 Convertible Sedan ( 2 door) the guns would of had to be loaded from the front passenger side, to the rear seat, going floor to ceiling at various angles like a puzzle, over and around the passengers. Be like a clown car in a circus. If you loaded the guns in first, the people would be doing yoga moves to fit in and around the weapons just to sit. I guess in the heat of the battle this could happen, but I wouldn't gamble on that. They only drove about 70 miles away and stole a larger model Ford V8, so I guess you can make your own conclusions.

 

I agree that Ballou's book has some errors, but it is difficult to ignore the other evidence -- the armoury burglary just nine days before, the FBI file quoting Blanche Barrow (who was there), and the Missouri Highway Patrol, which claims it seized one of the BARs (I understand there is some controversy whether they got that in Joplin or in Platte County, but they at least stick with Joplin). That's three pretty reliable sources plus the vague claim by Alvin Karpis in his book that he met them in Joplin in early April and they tried to sell him some BARs. Now, whether they had three, four, or five BARs we probably never know, but they almost certainly had several. How they squeezed five people and the guns in the car? I don't know.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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The one in the Missouri State Highway Patrol museum is a scattergun of course, that would sure fit, but it was seized not taken with them, right ? I guess you have to take Karpis' word that he met a couple young kids that wanted to sell him a huge BAR. Yes, vague claim. Poor old Blanche, don't know if she ever knew what was going on or what she got into. Quoting Blanche is like quoting W.D. Jones. she always tried to blame Clyde for Buck's misgivings and Clyde thought that was OK as Clyde was in way to deep, save your butt if you can .

 

To be honest, I don't know either. I guess read all the versions and come to your own conclusions . One of the reasons I never wanted to write a book about the outlaws, seems like everyone just regurgitating the newspaper stories, FBI files, etc. to their own theory, assuming everything published is Gospel. Then every book has a different take. Myself, I've done a lot of personal stuff, on the subjects. That's my high. About 45 +years worth of fun, travels, collecting etc. Got to know the families, what a kick.

Was talking to Helmer two weeks ago about this fading outlaw subject and he said, " yea, all 5 of us now ! HAAAAAA.

 

Anyway, good discussion. Always fun stuff reading your comments, HANS.

 

Prost

 

OCM

Edited by OCM
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Interesting discussion on the BARs Sandy & Hans. As for reading "all the versions and come to your own conclusions" I agree.

 

My best plausible guess would be that they indeed had multiple BARs (why steal only one if you're inside an armory) at the hideout, and perhaps Clyde was successful in selling the others to someone other than Karpis before the shootout - if he was actively trying to raise cash with them, there were plenty of underworld contacts in that area to whom he might have been able to offload a few. That'd explain away the car capacity issue and only recovering a single example. Pure speculation, but it'd satisfy both sides of the debate.

 

 

Maybe we need to go metal-detecting on Deafy Farmer's old place looking for a strongbox with three or four BARs packed in grease? ;)

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Theory # 71:

Barrow always traveled with his weapons ( I assume mostly the long arms) wrapped up in a lap blanket, in the rear seat. He and Bonnie were traveling along with WD Jones in the B-400 Ford. Including luggage, be a pretty tight back seat , but they were young & dumb and everything was temporary in their life.

Only a guess here, but when the shooting started in Joplin, I'd guess Barrow had a couple long arms at ready- BAR & whippet gun. When the shit hit the fan, they piled in the B-400 and added ( no choice ) Buck & Blanche in the back seat. Took what they could and left the rest in a big hurry.

Buck & Blanche could of been carrying the luggage in the Marmon, also left behind.

They'd be sitting on a pile of guns and anything else in the back seat- doable under the circumstance, but pretty cramped. As I've said, they only traveled for about 70 miles that way, then stole another car.

A time machine could straighten this all out , but I'll be " pushing up daisies to welcome the sun and the morning dew " ( a keen B&C Historian will know where that came from ) before the time machine is invented.

 

OCM

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