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1921 Colt Military Thompson Markings (Project Gun).

1921 colt military Thompson jhb inspector marks markings logos logo

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#21 Adg105200

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 12:46 PM

It is very interesting to see some of the dates/locations that early Colt Thompsons were used.

BUT... Like the original post asked: could it have been possible for a Colt Navy overstamp to make it from the Pacific (Marines, not British) to the ETO?

There are many others more knowledgeable in this than myself - Arthur, TD, etc.

Considering that the first marine battle in the Pacific took place in 1942, I guess the chance is there, but kind of slim?

Andrew
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#22 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 01:57 PM


BUT... Like the original post asked: could it have been possible for a Colt Navy overstamp to make it from the Pacific (Marines, not British) to the ETO?

Andrew

 Certainly possible. U.S. Marines on deck of  USS Washington BB 56 that saw action at Guadalcanal and was sent to the North Atlantic in 1942.

 

Attached File  USMC on deck of Washington BB 56.jpg   110.07K   17 downloads

 

Marine detachment aboard the cruiser USS Philadelphia landed Nov. 10, 1942, at the port of Safi, French Morocco.

 

Marines from the battleship USS Augusta (which had Colt TSMGs on board) and the cruiser USS Philadelphia went ashore in Marseilles harbor to accept the surrender of more than 700 Germans who had fortified island garrisons.


Edited by Arthur Fliegenheimer, 06 April 2017 - 02:03 PM.

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#23 TD.

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 02:52 PM

See this thread for additional information about Colt Thompsons in World War II:

 

http://www.machinegu...showtopic=20404

 

​While the number of Colt's would be very small in comparison with the Savage and Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport guns, I feel certain some Colt's saw action in both theatres of World War II. Maybe on both sides!  


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#24 buzz

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 11:23 PM

I don't understand the theme of these "Colt in WWII" threads.

 

It's obvious that the number of Colt Thompsons used in WWII were a tiny fraction of the total.  Less than 1%, if any were used at all.

 

So what point are we trying to make here?

 

That 4,500 Colts were the official "early war Thompson" when 500,000 Savages were in military inventories at the time?

 

Does not compute.


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#25 TD.

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 04:27 AM

Here is another excellent thread to review:

 

http://www.machinegu...showtopic=17730

 

On June 30, 1939, the U.S. Government ordered 951 Colt manufactured Thompson submachine guns and spare parts from Auto-Ordnance Corporation (AOC). This was less than a month before Russell Maguire took control of AOC. It stands to reason it took some time for AOC to acquire enough 1928 actuators, buffer pilot assemblies and horizontal fore grips to complete this large order and make shipment. I think it very likely the "U.S." and "A1" markings were applied to these 951 Colt's. This would explain why there is uniformity in the nomenclature markings of this type variation. I believe NO 11410 is one of the 951 Colt's that apparently made its way to Europe during the war. If it could only talk...

 

Oh, it computes to me ;) 

 

​All good stuff!


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#26 buzz

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

Indeed 

 

All good stuff


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#27 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:34 AM

I don't understand the theme of these "Colt in WWII" threads.

 

It's obvious that the number of Colt Thompsons used in WWII were a tiny fraction of the total.  Less than 1%, if any were used at all.

 

Your intransigence about Colt TSMGs appearing in combat in WWII  after being confronted with irrefutable evidence to the contrary is  amusing.  The more you squabble, the more focus is concentrated on the limited numbers of the original 15,000 Colt TSMGs  deployed in WWII. Keep up the good work!


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#28 Joe H

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 03:15 PM

I could probably fit the barrel for blanks and afterwards, register it with a Form 4 trust so I could pass it down to my children. After doing research, I understand that is legal for individuals to make their own guns (NON-NFA), they just can't ever sell them. I would do the all the finer machining myself however, like--Doug Richardson himself--I am partially blind. I suffer from myopic atrophy which is a form of extreme nearsightedness. It makes running a milling apparatus a tricky and potentially dangerous endeavor. I am capable of shooting safely at reenactments, but have difficulty with very small print or minute/precision type machines.

 

Thanks for any advice and I will continue to keep you posted.

 

--Michael

 

Michael,

 

To obtain a Thompson semi you currently have 2 choices:

 

Buy one from Kahr . Plenty of info over on the semi-auto section.

 

Build your own using the PO receiver you have ordered.  Check out this site: http://www.weaponsgu...php?board=105.0  

 

If you live in a state that allows NFA short barrel rifles with the proper tax stamp from the ATF you can have the 10.5" barrel on your semi.

 

Under certain circumstances your home built Tommy could be sold.

 

                                                                                      Joe 


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#29 buzz

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 03:34 PM

Arthur,

 

You'll have to supply some actual information for me to be intransigent about before I can be intransigent about it.

 

The source of all this pain and anguish here is the fact that I refused to attach great historical significance to the use of a handful of Colts in a giant global war.

 

 

I questioned how many Colts were actually used in WWII.  It appears to be a very small number.

 

TD posted up some actual information about it.  He showed that there could have been as many as 4,700 in various military inventories at the start of the war.

 

But we don't know what happened to those guns or what use those guns were put to, if any.

 

So that's data point number 1.

 

We know that Savage and AO made something like 1.8 million Thompsons for the war and they saw widespread use.

 

So that's data point number 2.

 

We know the month and year that Savage started making Thompsons and we know they made a large number of them (like 500k) in 1940 and 1941.

 

So that's data point number 3. 

 

 

In addition to the above information, we also have the usual baseless speculation and bickering that is of no use to anyone.

 

That pretty much sums up the current world data bank on Colt use in WWII, doesn't it?  Or am I missing something?

 

 

Those data points show that Colts were somewhere between 0% and 0.26% of the Thompsons used in the war.  

 

Since I'm such a dastardly rapscallion, I call it insignificant.   Unless somebody scrounges up some new information, I'm done with this topic.


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#30 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 05:34 PM

Arthur,

 

TD posted up some actual information about it.  He showed that there could have been as many as 4,700 in various military inventories at the start of the war.

 

But we don't know what happened to those guns or what use those guns were put to, if any.

 

We do know what use Colt TSMGs were put to in WWII. Or do you think Irish Guard Paddy Tellin had the only Colt TSMG in  the battles of Narvik, Norway?   That you cling to your "if any"  obdurate position is bizarre.  Do you imagine Colt TSMGs will decrease in collector dollar value and Savage/AO TSMGs will rise if you exclude the Colt from even making a cameo appearance in WWII?

 

While we are at proving which Colt TSMGs were used in what WWII battles, could you tell us how many Savage/AO TSMGs  have been documented by their specific serial number as having been used in a specific WWII battle?


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#31 buzz

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:56 PM

okey dokey


Edited by buzz, 07 April 2017 - 09:29 PM.

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