John in IN Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I don't see these very often, or hear much about this earlier version. Lots of interesting info on the early Colt models, with some neat pics. Just wondering how common these are?? http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/746244/TSMG_early_handbook01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 They are not very common. Do you want to sell it? Please let me know if you do. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in IN Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to build up a little collection of the paperwork associated with the Thompsons, so I really don't want to sell it. It's just fascinating reading this old stuff! How the magazine for a '21 is different than the one for a '28; and only certain drums are to be used in the '28, but they'll all work in a '21. Pretty exciting for a relative newcomer to the Thompson world! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 John in IN As David said not very common. That is a 4th Edition Handbook 1921/28/27 (1929 ed.) pg 370 fig 438 from Hill book. Can't remember exactly where the date is printed (1st page maybe) and I am too lazy to go and haul my but upstairs to look at mine to check. There is another 5th Edition which is VERY similar exept it has a printed date of 1936 on the cover. Enjoy and treasure the history. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in IN Posted February 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thanks for the info Sig! I'm looking for a date but not seeing one anywhere. If you remember where it is sometime, let me know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 John, Nice Handbook...and very hard to find. My Handbook has "4th Edition - January 1929" at the bottom of the first page. Open the cover page and this is printed right at the bottom of the page. I don't blame you for not wanting to sell. My handbook also has a hand stamp date on it of December 10, 1931. It is handstamped on the cover below the Model of 1927 markings and again on the top right hand corner of the first page. The stamping appears like it was done years ago. I suspect the stamping was by someone at Auto-Ordnance but I have no way to verify that. Does anyone else have this edition handbook with a handstamped date on it? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 John in IN I finally dragged my stuff out, it was a long 18 hour day yesterday I just had no energy to do it last night. Sorry my reference to 1929 was actually from Hill's book, where he dates it as January of 1929. My suggestion as to the date printed on the 1st page must have come from either of two places, either my 3rd edition example where the date is printed with May 1926 on the first page or maybe my 4th edition handbook I sold to pca16 on these boards had the date printed on it, or both. Either way mine does NOT have a date anywhere I could find, like yours. So with TD's mention his book has the January 1929 date I think we have now found another printing! So I know a 3rd edition with a TSMG on the cover is dated May 1926. You and I have a 1921/28/27 without a date printed (maybe circa 1927) this has 64 pages TD has a 1921/28/27 with a date printed January 1929 (not sure to call it another edition or another printing, maybe a printing would be appropriate) probably with 64 pages as well Then there is a 1921/28/27 with a printed on the cover "Edition of 1936", with 64 pages, Hill called this a 5th edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in IN Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Thanks for the great info on these handbooks. I actually have 2 of these, but the other one doesn't have a cover. I was hoping maybe it would be a different edition, but it has no date either. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif Here's what it looks like, and the first pages where I think the date would have been if it had one. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/746244/TSMG_early_handbook02_no_cover.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/746244/TSMG_early_handbook03_page23.jpg I got a kick out of the available "holster" for your Thompson! http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/746244/TSMG_early_handbook04_holster.jpg And lastly, the horsemount! http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/746244/TSMG_early_handbook05_horsemount.jpg You gotta love this old stuff! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 John, Michael, and David, I just noticed a very interesting difference between John's handbook without the "4th Edition - January 1929" markings on the bottom of page one and my handbook with those markings on the bottom of page one. If you will note the address for Auto-Ordnance Corporation on John's handbook does not have a street address. My handbook has the "302 Broadway" street address between Corporation and New York, N.Y., U.S. A. Page one also has the "302 Broadway" street address, just like the cover. My handbook is 64 pages in length. I just reviewed Roger Cox's book and noted he has reprinted a 1929 handbook in his book. It appears to be just like the one John has - no date and no "302 Broadway" street address. I would think the handbook with the "302 Broadway" street address would be the earliest handbook/manual of this edition but I really don't know. I will compare my handbook with the reprint in Roger's book and let you know if I see any differences. Reviewing these handbooks is getting more interesting by the minute. Perhaps someone will bump the thread on the Edition of 1940 Handbooks up to the top with something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 TD, I did have some new information regarding my original 1940 Handbook post, so that thread has been bumped up. I am very happy with the documentation that has been put forth in this thread regarding the different printings of the earlier handbooks. I value all the input, and the photographic evidence. Let's see what else we can learn! David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crow Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I as well appreciate the information on printed material. I gain much pleasure collecting everything Thompson related. So much so that I have started a 20's period room. Not only chucked full of displays centering on the Thompson, but 20's era items. I'd love to add a manual with data pertaining to the 27. Who knows perhaps in a few years, if the collection keeps it pace of growth, I will end up with a mini-TCA museum... Sigh, no room for a bed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 i sold a few of those to recon year's ago....i had all the manual's at one time or another,even the first and second.ed....sold both right here.even the 1922 price list... another rare one....... and you are right they are fun to look at and collect........ still have a 1926 or 1932 ed.packed away... a lucky collector here got my last along with some new patent date mags. heck we live so long.can't have or keep it all...time tell's us all that........ well back to the drawing board..........take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 This is my first time posting pictures so please bear me if this doesn't work. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Auto-Ordnance/FourthEditionHandbook.jpg ABOVE: This is the front cover of my 4th Edition Handbook of the Thompson Submachine Gun. Please note the "302 Broadway" street address on the front cover. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Auto-Ordnance/FourthEditionHandbookPage1.jpg Above: This is Page One of my 4th Edition Handbook of the Thompson Submachine Gun. Please note the "4th Edition - January 1929" markings at the bottom of the page. You can also see the price I paid for it in the upper right hand corner http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Auto-Ordnance/FourthEditionHandbookPage3.jpg Above: This is Page Three of my 4th Edition Handbook of the Thompson Submachine Gun. Please note at the end of the 6th paragraph, the last sentence: "See page 51." Compare that to John's Handbook, above. John's Handbook says, "See page 52." The horizontal foregrip mentioned in this paragraph is on page 52. I believe my handbook was the first printing of the 4th Edition Thompson Handbook and John's is a later printing where this mistake was corrected. There are other differences in the John's Handbook and the one I have. For example, Page 58 in John's Handbook and Page 58 in my Handbook show the same picture (horse) but the writing is different. In Tracie Hill's Book, The First Submachine Gun, Tracie shows on pages 367 through 370 the first three editions of the Thompson Handbook. All have distinctive markings that allow for identification. On page 370 he shows a picture of a Handbook exactly like the one John posted and claims this is the 4th Edition Handbook. I believe Tracie is correct, but he has published a picture of a later printing of a 4th Edition Handbook. I suggest Tracie did not know of the earlier edition like mine when he published his book. Obviously, I have included some speculation in my post. I welcome all comments and would like to know if anyone else has a handbook like mine. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 TD, Very cool! Thanks for posting the information, pictures, and analysis. I still think there are a lot of Thompson paper items that are not fully documented, and it's a personal quest of mine to pull as much of this information together as I can. Thanks! David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in IN Posted February 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 TD, Nice! It's great to actually see the differences you were talking about between our two handbooks. Like they say, a picture is worth a 1000 words! Great info. John PS: Great job on posting pics for the first time! They turned out perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 TD, Nice job posting the pictures! They turned out excellent and the variations of the handbooks are very interesting. I think we have uncovered some undocumented variations of the paperwork associated with the Thompson. Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now