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My New 38/44--Could it have WW2 History or Post War?


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#1 huggytree

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:43 PM

this gem came in to my dealer finally today...bought from MWT 3 months ago....my 2nd MWT purchase and i will say ive been very pleased both times.

 

i believe the gun to be original finish both metal and stock. no rust...i do see some odd silver under the barrel in the breech which makes me wonder if its a dewat? maybe Robert Naess can tell me?...no matter, im very pleased as i paid a very good price.

 

its a B block(not sure if this is like german ww2 guns?? where B2176 = 12,176 th gun made ??Just noticed the date 1949 on the gun!!!....funny...i guess its not a ww2 gun

 

the only issue is a very tight mag well..i literally had to pound mags into it...some went in with pressure and rocking, some had to be pounded in...gun ran very well...very controllable

 

anyone know what the S is on it?  is the B in a circle= Beretta? it has a barrel line..does this mean original barrel? barrel is slightly different color, so i wonder if replacement (dewat)

gun is registered as a 38/49, but its clearly not...receiver even says 38a/44...not sure the best process to fix this? can i submit paper work after the transfer to change it?

 

all opinions welcome....id like to learn anything i can about it

 

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Edited by huggytree, 20 December 2018 - 09:51 PM.

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#2 huggytree

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:46 PM


Edited by huggytree, 20 December 2018 - 09:46 PM.

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#3 BillyDixon

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 11:38 PM

looks like an post war commerical sales gun  ,just sayn


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#4 taeelec

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 01:57 AM

Nice Beretta! The 38 series are fantastic MPs. Like you said very controllable and reliable too. I know that the magazine housing on the 38/42 38/44 series can become deformed causing magazine insertion difficulties. It is possible to carefully reform the mag well. John Andrewski could probably take care of that for you. Your MP does appear to have original metal/ wood finish. They did manufacture the 38/44 up to 1949. I own a 38A but would also like to add a 38/42 to my collection. I've had great experiences purchasing from MWT too. Looks like you made a good buy. Todd in Oregon


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#5 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:03 AM

Yes it was a dewat at one time (wait, didn't you say you'd never buy a dewat?)  .  From the pics it's a little difficult to tell if that's the original barrel cleaned up or a replacement?  What the model says on a form 3 is not relevant as they will pass them through without much scrutiny, but when it goes to you on a form 4 the model will read as it was when it was registered whether correct or not, and there is no way to change it.....ever. 


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#6 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:34 AM

ATF’s position on changing registration data in the NFRTR is for the current registrant to write a letter to ATF detailing the incorrect info and documenting the correct info. Supporting the letter with pics and reference documentation is very helpful. ATF will not revise the current paperwork but will archive the letter in the NFRTR under the serial number. When the next transfer occurs, then the revised model information can be used on the form application to the next registrant.
ATF will not revise data during the transfer process so it must be done under the name of a current registrant.
FWIW
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#7 av8tr

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:15 AM

I have a 38/42 that was a bring back registered during the Amnesty.  Magazines insert very smoothly.  I wonder if something got heated/warped during the reactivation.


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#8 fifthmdec

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:50 AM

We had a similar Beretta with post war markings. 38A/44, 1949.
It was in the 38A configuration.
It was a dewat from a CA estate, we reactivated it and sold it years ago. Post War Italian Police used these subguns for years after the war. They are fairly common. Do a FOIA on it.
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#9 huggytree

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 07:39 PM

Yes it was a dewat at one time (wait, didn't you say you'd never buy a dewat?)  .  From the pics it's a little difficult to tell if that's the original barrel cleaned up or a replacement?  What the model says on a form 3 is not relevant as they will pass them through without much scrutiny, but when it goes to you on a form 4 the model will read as it was when it was registered whether correct or not, and there is no way to change it.....ever. 

 

Yes i said id never buy a dewat...also said i was done buying more FA about 8 guns ago :)    i will never buy a reweld again---guarantee that!

 

didnt know it was a dewat....i asked specifically about it, got multiple pics...from the pics i saw it didnt look like there was an issue...when i saw it in person it looked like weld splattered under the barrel, so i kinda figured....im fine with it.

 

how was this done w/o wrecking the finish outside ? it sure looks like original finish to me....

 

i got a very good price on this gun, so i dont care its a dewat or not..it runs, its original, its beautiful...

 

MWT is sending it off to their gun smith to take care of the magazine issue....awesome service...i know mac 11's have this issue and they use a wood block to stretch the metal out a bit on the mag well..i suspect the same thing is needed here...i used 9 mags and maybe 3 were remotely close to going in right..they still needed force and rocking back and forth 3-4x to get in....even the mag that came with the gun is the same...its not supposed to be that hard....im sure an easy fix

 

very pleased with MWTs service!!..i will most likely buy from them again...14 hour Efile approval!!! same day shipping...gun runs great, condition is better than their pics..

 

interesting gun.


Edited by huggytree, 21 December 2018 - 07:41 PM.

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#10 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 09:39 AM

The bulk of the weld takes place in the chamber area and the barrel is a large heat sink.  A little weld was dribbled down to the receivers, but not much since you'd be prone to burning through, just enough to keep the barrel from being easily removed and replaced.    On high polish blued guns you can occasionally see discolored bluing, but on a gun like this with a rough finish it's rarely noticeable.

 

Finish looks good and original to me. 

Not sure the "B" is the prefix since it's not on the same line or that close to the serial number.  On mine (different model so no real correlation) the prefix is right in front of the number.   For some reason most of these that you see the finish on the barrel doesn't match the receiver.  Likely barrels were made and finished somewhere else, then assembled.

 

It's been my experience lately that even if a model is corrected at one point even with photos, on subsequent transfers (taxable transfers to final destinations, not SOT's), they've changed it back to what the original filing says whether correct or not even with photographic evidence provided at a previous transfer.  The goal was to return all registrations back to reflect the original registration, not necessarily correct as far as the guns are concerned.  These are after all tax documents that need to be corrected and match the original filing or it cannot be said that the NFRTR is 100% accurate, the gun is really a secondary consideration since the whole thing is all about the tax in the first place.   

 

Impossible to say what happened with the magazine well, but it should be an easy fix and personally I wouldn't even risk shipping two ways for something like that.  A 20 minute repair.  The shipping and packing time will far exceed the repair costs.  HTH


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#11 huggytree

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:42 AM

MWT is paying for the repair/shipping

 

i agree a 30 minute fix

 

nice they are covering it w/o any question...ill ship their smith 8 mags to try out...each fits slightly different

 

thanks for the insight on the rewat. not a really valuable or collector nfa...a bit of sliver around the edge of the barrel or even a replacement barrel does nothing to devalue the gun for me....kinda neat the barrel line still line up..gun shoots as it should, smooth and accurate...nothing to complain about.....i thought about filing down the 8 mags i plan on using, but figure a smith can fix the gun and it would be a better idea to have it correct.


Edited by huggytree, 22 December 2018 - 10:45 AM.

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#12 BillyDixon

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 02:54 PM

is that pipe wench marks i see on the reciever?


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#13 huggytree

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 04:35 PM

Gun is pretty clean overall

For original finish Id rate it average or a bit above

It has marks. Wood full of dings. Not a trophy but for a tool used by troops I think its pretty good

Edited by huggytree, 23 December 2018 - 04:38 PM.

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#14 av8tr

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 08:16 PM

Not sure any troops used that particular gun, but that doesn't make it anything less.


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