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New to me M1A1


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I just obtained this M1A1 from a collector in Alberta. It has an AOC receiver and a Savage lower. The trigger frame is an early one with the integral boss for attaching the buttstock. Overall it is in very good condition and it will go nicely with my Savage M1. There is no detailed history on the gun. The former owner obtained it from an estate about twenty five years ago and now it is here. I will attach some more detailed photo's later. I find it interesting that my M1 has the protected rear sight but the M1A1 does not.

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Congrats! Looks like twice the fun!

 

Canuck,

Congratulations, really nice pair.

The butt stock on the M1A1 is especially nice looking wood.

Jim C

+1 on the wood!

 

Andrew

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if this gun in canada is it welded up non op.?

 

They are fully functional BillyDixon. However they are a dying breed as less than two hundred of us are licensed to own full auto/selective firearms in Canada. The government will not issue any new licenses so when we're gone the working guns go too. 99% impossible to shoot them anymore but I do attend shows and display them.

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if this gun in canada is it welded up non op.?

They are fully functional BillyDixon. However they are a dying breed as less than two hundred of us are licensed to own full auto/selective firearms in Canada. The government will not issue any new licenses so when we're gone the working guns go too. 99% impossible to shoot them anymore but I do attend shows and display them.

You are just about the luckiest man that I know of in all the Provinces! I didn't realize the number was that low. Good for you sir. Now you just need a place to shoot. Perhaps way up in the NW Territories?

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Cool gun, do you know if it was used in combat and where?

One of my frustrations in collecting Thompson's up here is the difficulty in tracing their previous ownership. One of the issues is the guns typically sit in collections for years and rarely change hands. Sometimes there are a few clues but usually not so much. I have one Savage 1928 that is British proof marked that was possibly used at an internment camp.Possibly .... and if it was then it likely spent the war stored on the gun rack. The previous owner had it for thirty seven years. An access to information request on previous owners before him led nowhere. Thompson guns were also imported from various locations (I think mostly in the 50's & 60's) so their stories are a mystery.

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Do you recall the SN of that Savage?

 

Bob D

The one that may have been assigned to an interment camp was S-22802. It is only speculation from the previous owner I have no concrete evidence.

Edited by Canuck
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Oh my. A nice, early first style Savage. Any history or pictures would be appreciated by many in this group.

Edited by bug
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Oh my. A nice, early Savage from the first contract. Any history or pictures would be appreciated by many in this group.

Bug,

 

Here is 22802 on the top. All original wood and fore grip marked "S". Below it is 33791 with Dan Block wood. I took off the loose comp on 33791 and dressed it up with a 21 style front sight. Of course, I still have the original wood for it.

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Very nice. Is there a sling swivel mounted on the earlier gun's forward grip? The Dan Block wood threw me a little. I thought it was Colt. Thank you.

 

Bob D

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Very nice. Is there a sling swivel mounted on the earlier gun's forward grip? The Dan Block wood threw me a little. I thought it was Colt. Thank you.

 

Bob D

 

Yes Bob, there is a sling swivel. The original wood on 33791 has one also. Btw, 22802 has patent dates and 33791 has patent numbers. I have better pictures somewhere but haven't found them tonight. I displayed them at a show a while ago and you can see the swivel in this photo.

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Beautiful condition. The pat date/number thing was what I was referring to in my first post. Only about 10K guns had dates. I edited that to read first style vs first contract. There was a lot going on when Savage production began.Tom Davis has a wonderful book on these early Savage guns. Hard to tell from the pics but the finish looks original. Yes?

 

Bob D

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Beautiful condition. The pat date/number thing was what I was referring to in my first post. Only about 10K guns had dates. I edited that to read first style vs first contract. There was a lot going on when Savage production began.Tom Davis has a wonderful book on these early Savage guns. Hard to tell from the pics but the finish looks original. Yes?

 

Bob D

Bob,

I believe the finish on these two is likely original. 22802 is noticeably better than 33791. Where ever it spent it's life it was never abused. 33791 shows it's age somewhat in comparison. I agree with your opinion of Tom's book and if you look closely you'll find he may have a picture, or two, of these guns.

Peter

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The 22K gun reminds me of a Savage Commercial. They were acquired by PDs in 1940 and spent most of their lives in the arms room.

 

Bob D

 

I see that you're quite familiar with Tom's book. I have one in there on page 115. Small world.

Edited by bug
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if this gun in canada is it welded up non op.?

 

They are fully functional BillyDixon. However they are a dying breed as less than two hundred of us are licensed to own full auto/selective firearms in Canada. The government will not issue any new licenses so when we're gone the working guns go too. 99% impossible to shoot them anymore but I do attend shows and display them.

 

So sad, but it's SUPER cool to hear from one of the "old timers" that is licensed to own these. I bet you've got a great collection since they are much cheaper up there. So one day one of you guys will just own them all?

 

I despise gun laws.

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You asked about the effect on prices of the laws. In Canada with an artificially reduced supply and an artificially reduced demand the prices are down to about 10% of normal. For instance, years ago here I mentioned an ad in a store for a $100 Sten gun. In the US there is artificially reduced supply but not demand and prices are ten times normal as you know. What has happened here is that people who can get guns here but not trade or use them are selling them to movie gun companies, like a collector I met from AB who bought three semiauto Indian FALs for $100 each at auction and then she sold them to a movie prop company for $300 each, which sounds like a good deal numerically but as it stands, no normal person will ever benefit from using them again. If I were doing that sale I would include a clause that if ever freedom returns to the country I or my assigned people would have the right to buy them back for the sale price. What do you think?

Speaking of prices, it is interesting to note the prices of guns made in North America during WW2 when the dollar was worth 50 of ours. A Long Branch Sten cost $15

while the #4 rifle contract price was $30 and an Inglis Bren cost $90. These latter prices may have changed at times because of economizing measures in the designs.

In the US the Garand was so complex that it also cost $90 like many light machine guns and the M1 carbine cost over $40 because it was also complex and there was development going on and wages were high, apparently.

In the fifties when the gov't arsenal built the C1 FAL they were so complex and there were no economy measures such as commercial sales so the price was $300, or $3000 each for our time, which was three times the price the US was paying for M14 rifles. Since the South Africans made about 250 000 FALs I think CAL in Canada made possibly 80 000 to 300 000 including the heavy barrel models, so the whole cost was high and production ran from 1958 to 1968. My issue rifle in basic was an 8L lot number, with the cheaper and more practical front sight sheet metal ears and dated 1968. I wish we could easily find out each country's FAL production figures.

s

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