dalbert Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 I want to start a project for the benefit of the Thompson community, and it has been mentioned by TD here before, in regards to creating a Thompson Data Sheet. The Carbine Club has a data sheet that is used to research M1/M2 Carbines, and it's time for us to have one for TSMG's. Preferably, I'd like it to be a one page, self explanatory sheet that can be filled out by hand, and then scanned, or maybe at some point, we could have one that is completely fillable online. The intent would be to create a repository on this board where pdf files can be stored, and listed by manufacturer and model, and could be available for anyone to view. It would primarily be for researching Colt, Savage,, and Bridgeport Thompsons, but could potentially also be used for West Hurleys. There would be many things we would want to identify, and I propose that it be organized in 5 sections, as follows: ReceiverLower FrameBarrel and CompensatorButtstockPistol Grip, Horizontal, or Vertical ForegripI'd like to start putting together a list of characteristics that we would want to note on the data sheet. My first run of suggestions is listed below, and I'm soliciting your input for others. Receiver: Serial NumberExact Model Marking (Including whether any of the markings are stamped vs. rolled)Left side markings - Inspector, Ordnance Flaming Bomb or WheelPrick Punch at top of receiver nose? If so, what location?Right side markings - Colt patent markings, Identify Savage markings based on TD's 4 receiver types listed in "Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story"Right side inspector markingsAny markings inside the receiverType of ejectorActuator typeActuator markingsActuator knob knurlingBolt type (M1 vs. M1A1), also bright vs. bluedAny manufacturer marking on bottom of receiver noseWitness Line? if so, does it line up exactly with witness line on barrel?Type of grip hanger (Milled or riveted)Lower Frame:Type of fire control leversType of fire control markings (Detail Colt differences)Serial number on lower frame, and any special characteristics (Crossed-out, Restamped)Factory markings under pistol gripBarrel and Compensator:Finned or smoothShape of finsBlued or parkerized?Is the barrel finish significantly different than the receiver?Does it have a "P" markingIs "P" marking prick punched?Any markings in between fins?Compensator? Pinned? Compensator Type?Front sight manufacturer marking?Buttstock:Buttplate assembly number? Does it match a number on the buttstock?Latch characteristicsReinforcement bolt or screws?Sling swivels? Sling swivel type?Any patches or other repairs?Pistol Grip, Horizontal, or Vertical Foregrip:Pistol grip manufacturer marking, or none?Fit of grip to frameHorizontal foregrip markingVertical foregrip markingChannel measurement (1/2" or 3/4")Any patches or other repairs?Horizontal foregrip - Is a sling swivel mounted anywhere but on the bottom?Vertical foregrip - Does it have sling swivel added, and if so, where?I think this could take a while to put together with the appropriate visuals, and I'm looking to see if anyone is interested in helping put it together. Preferably, I'm looking for someone who is good at line drawing. I have one main current project that I'm working on, but want to get this started to see if we can start gathering information that would be useful for research. Your input is appreciated. Please feel free to add any suggestions. Thanks! David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adg105200 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 David,Is the list to be only for complete guns, or separate trigger frames etc? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 David, I would suggest making separate data sheets for commercial and military variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 David,Is the list to be only for complete guns, or separate trigger frames etc? Andrew David, I think this would be a good addition,specially if the lower is numbered, to help others maybe match a receiver to a lower. Just my .02¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZelenka Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 David, three other things: Description of tops of rivets: flat or dimpled plus whether they are bright or finished. Which direction is the P on the barrel facing, is it readable from the rear or the muzzle? Is the P on the barrel serif or sans serif type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 I have also observed what look like domed rivets on very late Savage M1A1's. I am talking in the 850,XXX plus range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Thank you very much for the suggestions. I also want to particularly thank Bridgeport28A1 for information that he has forwarded to me in the mail. To answer an earlier question, I think we could include lowers only, if we think their inclusion could yield valuable data. I have started on the data sheet, and will update as I can. Thanks! David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Trigger frame data on M1/M1A1 frames might narrow down manufacturing ranges of milled stock bosses versus pinned stock bosses ranges and if both manufacturer used the two types during production. Data might provide a more definitive serial number range on when M1 frames were no longer serial numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Didn't Gordon Herigstad do a sheet like that for his survey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Didn't Gordon Herigstad do a sheet like that for his survey? MK VII, Not of which I'm aware. If he did, it probably only covered Colts, and may have requested only basic information. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougStump Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 If I may be so bold, you could include status:TransferableDealer SampleDewatParts kitDisplayed in museum or by law enforcementDummy gun (maybe?) What about a place to store photographs detailing anything of note. Example, the M1A1 that I previously owned had the GEG double stamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 If I may be so bold, you could include status:TransferableDealer SampleDewatParts kitDisplayed in museum or by law enforcementDummy gun (maybe?) What about a place to store photographs detailing anything of note. Example, the M1A1 that I previously owned had the GEG double stamped. DougStump, For the photos, I have another idea, but it may be a little while. I need to enable the Gallery feature for this software suite, but I need to first do a large upgrade. Once that is done, then we can talk about photos. Thanks! David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I posted this suggestion back in 2015, and someone repsonded in a post with a link to a data sheet that already existed for the Thompson. I saw it posted at work and didn’t click on the link but by the time I got home and remembered to check it they had deleted it. No one else respond. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 I'm working on a first draft of a data sheet. It may be a little bit, but I plan to have the draft out soon. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 I posted this suggestion back in 2015, and someone repsonded in a post with a link to a data sheet that already existed for the Thompson. I saw it posted at work and didnt click on the link but by the time I got home and remembered to check it they had deleted it. No one else respond. Oh well.http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18293&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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