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I have been trouble shooting my M1 West Hurley for a while. The seller reported the gun was re-finished (parkerized and GI parts) in the 1990s by a smith named Gerald Macdonald of Selma AL. Supposedly ran perfectly, with the “Hurley bugs” worked out. Upon receiving the weapon I found all parts were GI except the barrel, upper, lower frame, and magazine catch.

 

The gun suffers from fail to fire (light or no primer strikes) on occasion. This is worse with certain magazines. Semi mode suffers from these failures more often. Admittedly some of this could be from shooter inexperience with open bolt guns, but it seems to happen enough where I suspect the bolt is getting an abnormal amount of friction some where.

 

I have been slowly replacing parts in an effort to find the problem. The gun came with a GI M1A1 savage bolt. A M1 bolt did not solve the problem. A NOS recoil spring (notably about an inch longer than what was in the gun) did not help. I replaced all the lower parts. The bolt used to get stuck forward in semi mode, a new rocker seemed to have fixed that issue (of note is the old rocker had a lot more “slop” to it – the old one was GI. The new one is more solid so the old must have been worn).

 

I finally picked up a GI mag catch and had it parkerized to match the gun. I replaced the catch (and learned that catch spring is a pain to remove) and found the mags now sit higher in the lower, and the mags will not seat when the gun is assembled. The WH mag catch appears to have some filing around the catch protrusion so I suspect this was hand filed to make the mags seat reliable.

 

Below I have included some recorded dimensions in hopes that someone with more experience could confirm if my GI mag catch is within tolerance. I think the problem might be the mag catch hole location in the WH lower. Last year while trouble shooting at a local shoot, board member “mnshooter” allowed me to try using the M1 complete GI lower from one of his guns. That lower functioned flawlessly with my WH upper (and the mags seated reliably).

 

If anyone has a stripped GI M1 lower I would be interested in purchasing it.

 

Sending to PK is on the radar if I can’t get this going on my own, but I think I am close to the remedy.

 

Here are some pics of related dimensions, taken with a dial caliper (comparing WH to GI catch):

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/lower%20hole_zpsrolfhbl5.jpg

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/LATCHES_zpssdzha1q0.jpg

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/LATCHES3_zpsiawmekao.jpg

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/LATCHES2_zpsnbj5yevl.jpg

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I have three West Hurley guns – two were the model 1928 and one was the M1 model and ALL TRHEE of them were jam-o-matic guns. I sold the first 1928 and then I bought the second 1928 one and then my dad gave his M1 and I sold that. I asked PK to fix the remanding 1928 and he did by stripping ALL of the parts. He kept the receiver and re-machined it with Colt specs. Then we used all GI parts (and I mean ALL parts), blued it and put his proof mark on it. Then when I got it back and put in a bunch of oil on it, warped it and stuck in the back of the safe. At time you could get a really kit part set for less than a grand but the prices have really dried up so the parts are about double now. I did ask not ask PK to engrave it with the proof marks with the Colt or GI inspectors acceptance mark and now I wish I would have asked him to see he could do that. If you are going to ask PK to fix your gun, there will be a wait and it will cost (dearly) but the wait and the costs will pale with the product. If it were me, I would get a really good kit or set of parts, find a new barrel (I think PK can make new made up barrels in spec for that gun) ask PK to put you on his list ask him if he can engrave it with the right proof marks with the GI inspectors acceptance mark and just not shoot it until it is done. In event, I would be sure ask him to add his special proof mark as I believe adds value as that means it was really done by PK. Read this about the right finish:

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10770

 

By all means do not close to a Dremel and a beer. Ask me why.

RM

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Try to get a GI complete lower reciever, Change the barrel to a GI or a well manufactured GI spec barrel to correct your chamber issues and if you insist on using a GI recoil spring get the longest one you can find. The minimum go no go length spring is 10 1/2", Find a longer one. Also its a good idea to run a urethane buffer. If you insist on shooting your gun this will help you out till PK gets to it.

Edited by GUTTERRATT
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nate,

If an M1A1 bolt flies home and fails to fire, I would think your barrel has excessive headspace and needs replacing.

From what you've stated, all of your other problems can be solved by replacing the entire trigger group with a military trigger group.

If you can't find an M1 trigger frame a 1928 trigger frame will work with a little welding and machining. Then you'd have a detachable stock.

Jim C

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I do have a NOS GI barrel that I had parked with the mag catch, so I am good to go there when I can meet up with someone that has the Richardson tools.

 

Parts kits are averaging around $2000, that's alot to spend when I only need the frame. Based on past post searches it looks like M1 frames don't come up often. Do any of the reputable Thompson smiths make a new GI spec lower?

 

The 1928 lower is an option but I would like to keep it all M1 if possible.

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roertmcw, do I understand you correctly that you do not ever shoot the 28 that PK fixed up?

 

if so, why not?

 

also, if it's wrapped up in cloth you might want to remove that, guns should always be able to dry to the air. Cloth traps condensation.

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M1snpd.PNG

Savage on the left. Hurley on the right.

If the mags won't seat with the new GI catch, you probably have one of the most common problems found in the Hurley M1; the mag well was not machined properly for clearance.

The 45 degree bevels on the lower side of the mag well need to be relieved until the magazines will engage the catch. If your catch has already been cut in an attempt to make things work, you also might need to replace that.

If you can look at a GI M1, you will see the bevels are cut to nearly a knife edge at the outside. The Hurley will have a flat around .050 or wider.

Edited by mnshooter
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I finally picked up a GI mag catch and had it parkerized to match the gun. I replaced the catch (and learned that catch spring is a pain to remove) and found the mags now sit higher in the lower, and the mags will not seat when the gun is assembled. The WH mag catch appears to have some filing around the catch protrusion so I suspect this was hand filed to make the mags seat reliable.

On the WH M1A1 ,Wasn't there an issue with the machining in the mag well not being deep enough for proper mag seating?

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Thank you Paladin - I have also bought from them (most recently M1 complete bolt and the NOS barrel), and have had great results and fair prices. The picture is of a 1928 but the description says M1, I called to ask and left a voicemail. With any luck they could sell me just the lower since they sell the other parts individually on their online store / gunbroker.

 

Mnshooter, I remember you showing me the Hurley and GI magazine well differences in Frontenac last year. But when I used your complete lower the mags seated well - my upper worked reliably for the one mag I tried on your lower, which makes me think the hole for the mag catch might be off on my WH lower. Maybe someone here has a stripped lower, 1928 or M1, that could compare against the hole dimensions on my WH lower?

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We've seen repeatedly that a piecemeal parts replacement approach to getting WH guns to function properly seldom works. There are so many dimensions on them that are just wrong, along with milling operations that were incomplete or omitted altogether. I remember when the invoice came from PK for my WH M1 it said something like "bring gun completely to GI specs; refinish". That's what he did. The gun is beautiful and absolutely reliable. I'd get on PK's list and send him your WH M1 without any further attempts at parts replacement.

 

My gun, with which I'm very pleased:

MVC-006S.JPG

MVC_004S.JPG

MVC_009S.JPG

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Thompson's move through us. We must have the time. R

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roertmcw, do I understand you correctly that you do not ever shoot the 28 that PK fixed up?

 

if so, why not?

 

also, if it's wrapped up in cloth you might want to remove that, guns should always be able to dry to the air. Cloth traps condensation.

 

Buz, that is right, I have not shot it yet. There is a long story here. When I bought in late 2007, I found it was a jam-o-matic gun as soon I loaded a magazine and it jammed and I was really pissed. I will not tell you who was the vendor but he handles a lot of transfers. I finally cooled off, especially in light the fact that most WH guns have issues and I decided to keep it and have it fixed. I contacted PK and he said he would work on it but there be an about three back log before he should start. I then had bought a IMA select kit and I was ready to go. But the big man upstairs had other plans. In October, 2009 I had a small stroke. My motor skills were fine but I could not process language. That means I could not read, write or speak. What does a trial lawyer do for income if he cannot process language? I had some income but not even enough to pay the note for the house. My parents had built a small house (about 1100 sq ft) in the mid 1960’s close by from the house. I had a ¼ interest of that house and my dad owned the rest and he lived in his own house in Denton, Texas. We sold most our stuff and painted both of the houses, moved to the smaller house as it was paid for, and sold the big house and sold it and made a nice profit. Then PK said he was ready to work in the WH Thompson but at time the money was not right so we had to wait. Then the money was increased due to my investments and PK put back on the list and then man was I pleased with the results. But there in the back of my mind I things could change so decided to hold off shooting if I were required to sell it. I have been watching the boards for years and you rarely see a PK Thompson for sale. I thought if I were forced to sell and if it was never shot, I could get a premium so I just admired it and saved it for a rainy day. PK really is an artist. Then my dad passed away and it took over five years to close the estate and NOW I will be OK for rest of my life if I watch my pesos. I told my son today that now I can keep it, it may the time to de-virgin it and we can have a son-father shoot around in honor of my dad’s life. And that is the truth.

And about the wrap - I am looking to buy a long storeage bag to keep it as new I can so when I don't need anymore and my son can enjoy it. I do not know what the long storeage bag would be the best one but I am working on it.

RM

Edited by roertmcw
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I emailed PK to get on his list. If the wait is in years I can always cancel if I figure this thing out before my turn. Update on waffenmesiters, their kits are only the 1928 variety.

 

When I decided to go for a Thompson I wanted to go for a shooter, not a safe queen. I do some WWII reenacting, and most of the Thompsons I see there are semi SBRs. There is great immersion when automatic arms are used. I remember last time we had an event our squad got ambushed by a kraut with a STG44. It was something to behold having the kraut burst out from a position of concealment and unload a mag on us. I do plan to blank the WH barrel - the field use of the gun will certainly cause more wear and tear, which shys me away from investing in the PK work of art restoration.

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roertmcw,

 

I am very reluctant to store any gun in any kind of bag or anything that will wick up moisture or trap moisture.

 

This seems to be a big problem where I live, I guess it's too humid here.

 

People will store a pistol in a gun blanket or case for years and years with no problems, and then one day they'll pull it out of the case and it's rusty.

 

Because the case prevents condensation from evaporating.

 

My understanding is that the best thing is to store the guns in plenty of airflow and get a gizmo called a "goldenrod" for your safe and be sure to wipe the fingerprints off the gun with an oily rag.

 

 

The price spread on WHs is $20k for a mint NIB 1928 to around $17k for a used but nice WH 28.

 

I almost never see any PK guns on the market, I guess the PK owners are guys who have decided to definitely hang on to the gun.

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I've always used Bore-Store products for short term storage / protection.

There silicone impregnated and thick.

For long term storage, use a climate controlled safe with generous amounts

of oil in and on the gun.

I just purchased a lot of 8"x8" bags for my L drums.

-Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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Buz

I agree with the prices. If I would have listed today, I would have listed first here with photos

and a nice write-up so the people here could have had first bids on it. With the cost of a IMA select

kit and PK’s fees I would have expected a 24K – 25K price target for starters.

RM

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Mnshooter, I remember you showing me the Hurley and GI magazine well differences in Frontenac last year. But when I used your complete lower the mags seated well - my upper worked reliably for the one mag I tried on your lower, which makes me think the hole for the mag catch might be off on my WH lower. Maybe someone here has a stripped lower, 1928 or M1, that could compare against the hole dimensions on my WH lower?

I don't remember if you had a GI or Hurley mag catch at the time.

The limitation in measuring only those lower parts is that is doesn't show the relationship to your receiver. There was clearly a functional difference between the two lowers when installed on your upper.

Next time we get together, we can try a few 28 lower assemblies on your upper to see how that works.

But, I'm thinking you want a M1 lower that works as the final fix.

I will do some measuring to see how these match with your posted measurements, but it will be a while.

Just need some time to do it.

Edited by mnshooter
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Are the magazine well cuts the only dimensional problem with M1 type west hurleys?

 

If so, it seems to me that they would make a better bet for the WH buyer.

 

The M1 is a far more simple gun than the 28. Simple mechanism, simple problems?

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Great lead Paladin! Doug has complete M1 lowers (minus stock).

 

I did email PK and asked to be put on his waiting list. But even if he ends up working on my gun in several years, I think I will need a GI lower anyways - so I went ahead and purchased one from Doug.

 

Doug asked me to pass onto the community that he has many parts available - even mentioned M1 bolts as new for $150. Those looking for parts should call him first before hitting Ebay/Gunbroker, etc.

 

EDIT 5/15/16, I just spoke to Doug again. He is planning to make complete guns soon, using his receiver and the remainder with his spare GI parts. He asked me to pass on that he does wish to sell any more lowers at this time. But he still is very interested in selling other small parts, springs, barrels, etc.

Edited by nate129
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  • 3 weeks later...

Update, I finally got some time to break down the new old stock lower I purchased from Doug Richardson. As you can see in the below measurements, there are some differences in dimensions between the GI lower and the Hurley. The mags do seat with this GI lower but it does take a slight bump on the bottom of the stick for the catch to fully latch. I was unable to get the mags to seat with the Hurley lower, using the GI catch, even with firm pressure or bumps on the mags.

 

If the mag catch hole was incorrectly machined on the WH lower then I also suspect the holes for the pivot plate, selector, and safety may be off. This may explain why the (GI) M1A1 bolt that came with the gun was getting deformed at the back end of the trip channel.

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/524550d3-a782-4332-b4d1-e71f53440d83_zpshdcywccn.jpg

 

As compared to the Hurley:

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/lower%20hole_zpsrolfhbl5.jpg

 

The GI lower is serial 240332 (struck), Savage, with GEG stamp.

 

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/kb0uxv/NOS%20lower2_zpshcrmain5.jpg

 

I did get on PK's list, with the previously mentioned few year wait. My next decision is to parkerize the the new lower, or leave it in the original blue and have PK blue the upper to match the blued lower and NOS blued GI barrel. Personally I like the parkerized look more but to be more WWII true I suppose blued is the best choice.

 

I will try this new lower at the range next time I get a chance and report back if it makes a significant difference in some of the fail to fires I have been experiencing.

Edited by nate129
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Yes, PK's wait list for complete projects always stretches into years, but he's done excellent jobs on several small projects and repairs for me, just general gunsmithing, really. Perhaps he'd have time for the frame and catch repair that you need. It can't hurt to ask.

 

The last job he did for me was to reverse engineer and produce a replacement for the otherwise irreplaceable broken front swivel on a new condition M1936 Mexican Mauser. That little steel contraption is a work or art!

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