DukeNukem Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) I think we can all agree that field stripping an m1 (vs an 1928) is wayyyyy easier because the recoil guide rod comes out the back of the receiver. Has anyone modded there parts or dare I say their receiver in their 1928 pattern gun to get this for easy cleaning? Or is what I'm saying completely crazy and absolute heresy? Both my m1 and 1928 are in NFA jail, otherwise I would tempted to try those m1 parts in my 1928 lol but they will never be more than shooters. And I intend to shoot the piss out of them. I know they both use the same spring. Thanks! Edited March 21, 2017 by DukeNukem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob241 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 One big problem, buffer pilot hole in back of the two receivers are in a different location, buffer pilots will not interchange unless some mod is performed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 It is possible, Buffer pilot rod has to be shortened to keep from bottoming out in the actuator. the receiver rod hole has to be enlarged to accept a M1 rod and finally spring length adjusted because the spring will compress completely with a standard spring.The M1 pilot rod is very hard and making one smaller may weaken it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have never seen a two part West Hurley 28 buffer and pilot, but if it is similar to how an m1/a1 go together, then yes it has been thought of, and those were supposed to be weak. I may be wrong as I have never seen a WH pilo/ buffer system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adg105200 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Check out page 130 in Frank's American Thunder III. That doesn't look like a normal buffer pilot in a Savage 1928. At least I've never seen a 1928 buffer pilot with a radius on the end. Can anyone explain that? I just noticed it the other day while reading it. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob241 Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have read the West Hurley buffer pilot was mfg in two parts to save steel, the small dia pilot was first machined, and the buffer disk was machined later, after machining, the buffer disk was fitted to the pilot some way, (press fit, welding) the problem, if the buffer disk separated from the pilot, the bolt would cause the pilot to exit the rear of the 28 receiver, into some part of the shooters body, (eye, head, or whatever was behind the receiver) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukem Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have read the West Hurley buffer pilot was mfg in two parts to save steel, the small dia pilot was first machined, and the buffer disk was machined later, after machining, the buffer disk was fitted to the pilot some way, (press fit, welding) the problem, if the buffer disk separated from the pilot, the bolt would cause the pilot to exit the rear of the 28 receiver, into some part of the shooters body, (eye, head, or whatever was behind the receiver)The buffer in the m1 holds the recoil guide rod in place so it doesn't exit out the back. Pull it out vertically and the spring/rod can be easily removed for cleaning. I like it way better than the 1928 and the point of my discussion is to see if something like that could/has been implented in the last 80+ years for the 1928 to make it that simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 You mean something like this, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLUTAH Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I just got a West Hurley in and it does have a two piece buffer and pilot,I have two others that had the West Hurley parts changed out for savage parts, but this gun looks to be strictly West Hurley. The first thing I will do is change out the West Hurley parts for savage parts BEFORE I fire it,I also have a feeling the spring needs to be shortened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLUTAH Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 That"s it exactly Paladin601 but I think my spring is a little longer as it almost kinks in the gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 That"s it exactly Paladin601 but I think my spring is a little longer as it almost kinks in the gun yeah I think so, I shorten the spring too much, still a work in progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukem Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 You mean something like this,If that is a 1928 pattern gun and the recoil rod can be pulledthrough the back receiver after you pull out the buffer then yes that's what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) I just got a West Hurley in and it does have a two piece buffer and pilot,I have two others that had the West Hurley parts changed out for savage parts, but this gun looks to be strictly West Hurley. The first thing I will do is change out the West Hurley parts for savage parts BEFORE I fire it,I also have a feeling the spring needs to be shortened. Yes please change out your two piece West Hurley pilot as soon as possible. You'll shoot your eye out (literally and figuratively). These things are horrible and have been known to come apart. I like PKs hybrid 21/28 pilot and buffer. Use a 21 spring with PK modded pilot and actuator and disassembly of the spring is so much easier than the 28. Plus you get the higher rate of fire. Ron Edited March 22, 2017 by ron_brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLUTAH Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Thanks Ron for the info, I'll get contact PK for the pilot and spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 It would probably be easier to machine a custom M1 type buffer pilot rod for a 28 than to modify an original m1 rod While you're at it, why not make a new m1 buffer with a nice squishy piece of neoprene or urethane glued to it instead of that rock-hard phenolic material in the original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) It would probably be easier to machine a custom M1 type buffer pilot rod for a 28 than to modify an original m1 rod While you're at it, why not make a new m1 buffer with a nice squishy piece of neoprene or urethane glued to it instead of that rock-hard phenolic material in the originalPK did exactly this for my Pearl M1A1. Works great. The urethane is shaped to fit perfectly into the rear of the Receiver channel and a thin piece of metal is bonded to the surface facing the pilot. Creates about a 1/2 inch thick urethane buffer. A lot more protection than the original design and materials. Edited March 22, 2017 by wwiifirearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I just got a West Hurley in and it does have a two piece buffer and pilot,I have two others that had the West Hurley parts changed out for savage parts, but this gun looks to be strictly West Hurley. The first thing I will do is change out the West Hurley parts for savage parts BEFORE I fire it,I also have a feeling the spring needs to be shortened. Yes please change out your two piece West Hurley pilot as soon as possible. You'll shoot your eye out (literally and figuratively). These things are horrible and have been known to come apart. I like PKs hybrid 21/28 pilot and buffer. Use a 21 spring with PK modded pilot and actuator and disassembly of the spring is so much easier than the 28. Plus you get the higher rate of fire. RonBut is a higher rate necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 It would probably be easier to machine a custom M1 type buffer pilot rod for a 28 than to modify an original m1 rod While you're at it, why not make a new m1 buffer with a nice squishy piece of neoprene or urethane glued to it instead of that rock-hard phenolic material in the originalYes, modified 28 rod ( new manufactured) would be better, but the retainer has me a concerned, I want a more positive retention on it, with out the possibility of the rod separating from the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) I don't see any need for more positive retention. Why would an M1 type setup for a 28 be more likely to come apart in a 28 than an M1? people never report any problems with the M1 setup in M1s. you got the rod and you got a rectangular buffer acting as a lock, slid down onto a reduced diameter section or the rod. unless you take the lower off the upper, how could the buffer come off and release the rod? I'm very conservative and safety minded, but if the buffer can't slide off the rod, then I think you're GTG I like this idea, make a custom rod for a 28 and use an M1 buffer on it. Make a custom buffer as well if you need to. My savage commercial came with a no-hole spring pilot. I could get it installed in anything from one try to 30 tries. there is definitely a knack to it but I never really locked it down. finally gave up and got a 28A1 pilot with the hole Edited March 22, 2017 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 you got me thinking again.I was thinking the the nubs that retain the buffer on the rod would be smaller, but they really are not. I was trying to make do with what is already available, but think that is the wrong way to go.A newer buffer would be better thanks Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukem Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I don't see any need for more positive retention. Why would an M1 type setup for a 28 be more likely to come apart in a 28 than an M1? people never report any problems with the M1 setup in M1s. you got the rod and you got a rectangular buffer acting as a lock, slid down onto a reduced diameter section or the rod. unless you take the lower off the upper, how could the buffer come off and release the rod? I'm very conservative and safety minded, but if the buffer can't slide off the rod, then I think you're GTG I like this idea, make a custom rod for a 28 and use an M1 buffer on it. Make a custom buffer as well if you need to. My savage commercial came with a no-hole spring pilot. I could get it installed in anything from one try to 30 tries. there is definitely a knack to it but I never really locked it down. finally gave up and got a 28A1 pilot with the holeThis is the answer I think I have been looking for. I think it's possible to do for my 1928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I just got a West Hurley in and it does have a two piece buffer and pilot,I have two others that had the West Hurley parts changed out for savage parts, but this gun looks to be strictly West Hurley. The first thing I will do is change out the West Hurley parts for savage parts BEFORE I fire it,I also have a feeling the spring needs to be shortened. Yes please change out your two piece West Hurley pilot as soon as possible. You'll shoot your eye out (literally and figuratively). These things are horrible and have been known to come apart. I like PKs hybrid 21/28 pilot and buffer. Use a 21 spring with PK modded pilot and actuator and disassembly of the spring is so much easier than the 28. Plus you get the higher rate of fire. RonBut is a higher rate necessary?To each their own. When shooting in competitions, I prefer the higher rate of fire. It's easier to control and if shooting side by side with steel plates, the higher rate of speed will rive you an edge. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I shoot better with a higher rate of fire I put a rubber buffer in my UZI, it's choppy and bouncy at 600 rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Interesting, thanksGuess it it like a engine at a higher rpm, actually it is like an engine at a higher RPM Edited March 23, 2017 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Everything has a natural frequency of vibration, the frequency that it will vibrate at if it was deflected and released like hitting a tuning fork, it vibrates at a certain set frequency when you introduce a vibrating excitation force, the closer the excitation force frequency is to the natural frequency of the object, the more the object will vibrate In other words, the frame and motor mounts of your car have a certain natural frequency that they want to vibrate at when your engine is idling, the vibration of the engine is close to the natural frequency of the car body and mounts, so the car vibrates a lot when you step on the gas and speed the engine up, the vibration frequency is too high to excite the car body as much, so the vibration smooths out the engine is technically vibrating HARDER than at idle, but the mismatch between the engine vibration frequency and the car body frequency makes it not vibrate the car as much' another example would be a singer who exactly matches the pitch of a wineglass. The excitation force matches the natural frequency of the glass, so the vibrations keep building and building until the glass breaks but if she sings higher or lower, the sound vibrations don't match the glass well enough to make it resonate enough to shatter so anyway, that's why cars seem to smooth out when you run the rpms up I find that the UZI tends to not only bounce around at low rpm, it runs kind of choppy, the ROF gets faster and slower. So I got a 1" rubber buffer that jacks the RPM up to around 750, which is much smoother. I don't have that problem with my thompsons. The M1A1 has a very slick action and probably runs about 900 with an M1 bolt. The 28 is probably like 800 ish. Edited March 23, 2017 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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