DARIVS Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) MP44 with period-correct mixed finishes. I have found it to be a very reliable as well as accurate firearm.Having seen several MP-43/44/StG-44's firing, the reliability varies. Some have mag and cartridge charge issues causing FTF's and FTE's, most are fairly reliable. The design seems to be a well tested prototype more than a fully developed and refined rifle, but given the wartime stress on production, it was miraculous. The finish varies from fully blued to mixed bonderized (phosphated) to full bonderized to bare metal covered in lacquer. Mine is all blued (refinished) but I prefer the industrial look of the mixed finish guns. They have a certain utilitarian beauty. The main problem with owning one is feeding it. PPU is not always reliable in some guns, others do fine. Once you know what your individual rifle likes as far as powder load, reloads of PPU cases work well. The gun has several glaring faults in design, including a large distance between chamber and the tip of the cartridge plus a steel step instead of a sloped feed ramp. Feeding guidance of the cartridge relies more on the mag feed lips. These contribute to lower feed reliability. The stock wood is thin on the sides where the recoil spring is, and the area where it sockets into the stock retaining piece is weak and easily broken. Breaking the stock off in a heavy accidental blow in the field totally disables the rifle. These guns were never design to be repaired for a long lifetime of use, even though the lowers can be swapped out after removing the pivot pin. The bolt guiding surfaces must keep tight tolerance, and have narrow arcs which the bolt relies on for guidance of motion. I can only imagine how a few more years of development could vastly improve the design. It's amazing that the sheet metal operating parts for the firing mechanism could be so long lived and reliable in the lower, but they are even after 75 years. The accuracy is very good. In full auto, control-ability is excellent due to long recoil of the action, relatively heavy 9 lbs. of weight, and slow firing rate. I think this is where the gun truly shines. Once you get used to the slow firing rate and stop overcompensating your point of aim in recovery, you really get good at putting lead on target in full auto. Too bad for the Germans that they only fielded about 1/3 of the ammo they needed to support the rifles they had in the field, since the ammo shortage forces them to make soldiers use the rifle in semi-auto, with full auto being used only in dire circumstances or very close range. Running out of ammo was a plague to the MP-44 users. Edited November 15, 2019 by DARIVS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) DARIVS -- at first I didn't care much for the mixed finish but over time it has grown on me and now I really I like it. For what it is -- a pressed/stamped sheet metal gun with very few machined parts made under extreme wartime duress with limited raw materials sometimes of questionable quality -- the STG/MP44/45 really is a remarkable weapon. And, as you said, the gun is unrefined and could have been much better, had Germany the time and resources to do so. The wooden buttstock remains the principal weakness and is just too fragile for a military rifle. Mine has a longitudinal crack that I have kept an eye on and seems to be stable for now. Additionally, I had to repair the wood holes were the screws from the metal buttstock ferrule go into the wood with JB weld and then paint it to match rest of the wood finish. Yet, despite it shortcomings, the Sturmgewehr was ahead of its time and I do enjoy shooting this piece of history. Mine is far from a pristine sample and obviously saw wartime use. If these guns could talk, what a story they would tell. Edited November 15, 2019 by maxfaxdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryKeim Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Much appreciated information, guys. Waiting on my 43 ReWaT (not so) patiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Darivs you have given the best short synopsis i have read on the 44's in awhile and all true. It was a great time in WW2 German History to try and do the best when all was getting lost.Like the Tiger tank...thanks for that input. I did not get my first one until the late 70's and very few besides Curtis Earl even bothered to talk about them. And some thought it was a fancy AK-47 at shows. Since Viet -Nam had ended 4 years before.RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hammer Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 So when is DK productions going to make available the semi-auto version here in the US? I've been seeing them on there website for years now. Mike H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 I have been working with them for 2 plus years to get the MP-38 here next model the MP-44 if all goes well on the 38 the problem is our Gov. under current admins.. Yep you heard that one right here.It is a quagmire hopefully 2020 we will have first MP-38's.RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 I wonder if the Germans tried using the standard Mauser 8mm round in the sturm during the development. They had millions of rounds on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 Yeah that was the FG-42 the MP-43 44/45 was the intermediate round. around the time the SKS Soviet rifle was under development.The MP-44 has a number of failings. we all overlook that for the cool late war factor and the history.RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARIVS Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 DARIVS -- at first I didn't care much for the mixed finish but over time it has grown on me and now I really I like it. For what it is -- a pressed/stamped sheet metal gun with very few machined parts made under extreme wartime duress with limited raw materials sometimes of questionable quality -- the STG/MP44/45 really is a remarkable weapon. And, as you said, the gun is unrefined and could have been much better, had Germany the time and resources to do so. The wooden buttstock remains the principal weakness and is just too fragile for a military rifle. Mine has a longitudinal crack that I have kept an eye on and seems to be stable for now. Additionally, I had to repair the wood holes were the screws from the metal buttstock ferrule go into the wood with JB weld and then paint it to match rest of the wood finish. Yet, despite it shortcomings, the Sturmgewehr was ahead of its time and I do enjoy shooting this piece of history. Mine is far from a pristine sample and obviously saw wartime use. If these guns could talk, what a story they would tell. The mixed finish guns look so industrial, they have a beauty all their own because of their ugliness when viewed in terms of tradition rifle appearance tastes. The longitudinal crack is common on all the MP-43/44/StG-44 rifles and usually occur naturally with age. Even a brand new replica stock will develop them after several seasons and humidity change since the shrink/swell of the wood in thicker portions will tear the thinner 1/16" thick area along the sides of the recoil spring cavity. I noted the same crack (actually a complete split stock in the same location on a MkB-42W. Definitely the weakest part of the gun. I still enjoy the hell out of the MP-44, when I can spare the ammo to shoot it. It's the crown jewel of my tiny but distinguished gun collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARIVS Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Here's a problem with the MP-43/44/StG-44 rifles you don't want to see, but happens occasionally with the tolerance on the bolt guiding surfaces (call them rails if you like) grows too large. The bolt jumps out of the guides. The pressure of the top round of the magazine pushes the bolt upward, and if the guide surfaces are worn the front end of bolt moves out of the gun through the ejection port. This happened to my rifle frequently before repairs, and happened to one of Troy's rifles too, an all matching, late war StG-44. Presumably, the untouched rifle he had should not have had the same tolerance issues that my REWAT did, because of the hasty and sloppy work some fellow did in the past removing too much metal from the chamber of the rifle I now have. The front of the bolt slammed against the front of the ejection port opening. This is a helluva bitch to fix when you have to lay down new metal and rework the guides THROUGH THE EJECTION PORT! \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 DARIVS - thank you for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Yes this is good info!! especially when im shopping for another sturm. I assume this condition would be on a reweld only?? Edited November 19, 2019 by Petroleum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARIVS Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Yes this is good info!! especially when im shopping for another sturm. I assume this condition would be on a reweld only??No, it can AND HAS occurred in some UNTOUCHED all matching originals. It's rooted in a design weakness. It will only manifest itself while firing, not while cycling the action manually. For my rifle, not only were the guide surface on the left side of the firearm reworked, but the bolt was also swapped out. The tiniest of tolerance changes in bolt diameter was a contributor to the issue. A complex problem like this can be hard to diagnose, but once you know all the contributing parts fitment factors, it can be solved. Edited November 19, 2019 by DARIVS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted November 19, 2019 Report Share Posted November 19, 2019 Would adding some material to the bolt, maybe some stainless rod with a tig do the same thing as repairing the guides inside the receiver?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted November 20, 2019 Report Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Here's a problem with the MP-43/44/StG-44 rifles you don't want to see, but happens occasionally with the tolerance on the bolt guiding surfaces (call them rails if you like) grows too large. The bolt jumps out of the guides. The pressure of the top round of the magazine pushes the bolt upward, and if the guide surfaces are worn the front end of bolt moves out of the gun through the ejection port. This happened to my rifle frequently before repairs, and happened to one of Troy's rifles too, an all matching, late war StG-44. Presumably, the untouched rifle he had should not have had the same tolerance issues that my REWAT did, because of the hasty and sloppy work some fellow did in the past removing too much metal from the chamber of the rifle I now have. The front of the bolt slammed against the front of the ejection port opening. This is a helluva bitch to fix when you have to lay down new metal and rework the guides THROUGH THE EJECTION PORT! \What you're describing is guns that have been butchered on, worn out, or broken from an out of battery detonation. The area you're describing is part of the trunion which extends all the way back behind the magazine well as one piece. It doesn't just end at the breech. Extreme wear in that area is unlikely since the bolt slides across, and the front of the bolt slides into the round opening in the trunion in front of the barrel to accept the bolt straight in with a ledge at the top that would prevent the bolt from riding up, and the sides of the trunion in combination with the sheet metal outer housing prevents it from riding out to either side. It's certainly possible an OOB issue bulged the sides out enough, or that an ugly deactivation coupled with an aggressive grinding to get the old barrel out damaged the trunion in one or both areas? These guns are old and no one has any way of tracking what may have happened along the way. Just because a gun looks new doesn't mean it's not been messed with. The majority of these are reactivations and anything can happen along the way.In general the guns are well made with all the wear areas isolated to the trunion area with very little of wear on the stamped sheet metal areas, thus making them tougher (assuming your trunion is intact) than an AK, which rides on stamped soft rails like most other guns. I'd have to check the book, but those trunions are either cast or forged so they are very durable and this is not a common problem at all from what I've seen. In fact this is the first case I've heard or seen a photo of? I've actually never checked accuracy, but mine would be the most accurate of all currently with an aftermarket CNC cut rifled barrel installed. I should probably do that and like their other barrels 1/2 MOA or less. Too bad I don't have one with a scope mount, course then I would never have pulled the factory barrel? LOL I've not seen a cracked stock either because they are laminated and not all that thin in the spring area, and of course the glue keeps them together so cracking is unlikely . Likely early ones may not have been laminated and IIRC the repro stock a guy scammed me on is not laminated, this would then be a weak area. If you want to see a thin spot shine a bright flashligh under the stock in the manual hole area.....that's thin! Edited November 20, 2019 by johnsonlmg41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted November 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Here is a pic of the stampings on the bottom of my MP43, can anyone translate the meaning of these? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Your rifle is Erma (ayf) mfg and the COS wa44 is merz werk I believe they are the subcontractor that made the receivers. The other markings im not sure of maybe someone else can help on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted February 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 Shot it yesterday for the first time, only had 40 rds. with me. Ran 4 mags with 10 rounds each, ran flawless in both semi and full. A pleasure to shoot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 Shot it yesterday for the first time, only had 40 rds. with me. Ran 4 mags with 10 rounds each, ran flawless in both semi and full. A pleasure to shoot !Congrats...did you singe your hand on the barrel guard? I usually wear a glove ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman3 Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 Do you have an MP43 marked Mag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted February 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 I do not, my only mag is marked MP44. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARIVS Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 Here's a problem with the MP-43/44/StG-44 rifles you don't want to see, but happens occasionally with the tolerance on the bolt guiding surfaces (call them rails if you like) grows too large. The bolt jumps out of the guides. The pressure of the top round of the magazine pushes the bolt upward, and if the guide surfaces are worn the front end of bolt moves out of the gun through the ejection port. This happened to my rifle frequently before repairs, and happened to one of Troy's rifles too, an all matching, late war StG-44. Presumably, the untouched rifle he had should not have had the same tolerance issues that my REWAT did, because of the hasty and sloppy work some fellow did in the past removing too much metal from the chamber of the rifle I now have. The front of the bolt slammed against the front of the ejection port opening. This is a helluva bitch to fix when you have to lay down new metal and rework the guides THROUGH THE EJECTION PORT! \What you're describing is guns that have been butchered on, worn out, or broken from an out of battery detonation. The area you're describing is part of the trunion which extends all the way back behind the magazine well as one piece. It doesn't just end at the breech. Extreme wear in that area is unlikely since the bolt slides across, and the front of the bolt slides into the round opening in the trunion in front of the barrel to accept the bolt straight in with a ledge at the top that would prevent the bolt from riding up, and the sides of the trunion in combination with the sheet metal outer housing prevents it from riding out to either side. It's certainly possible an OOB issue bulged the sides out enough, or that an ugly deactivation coupled with an aggressive grinding to get the old barrel out damaged the trunion in one or both areas? These guns are old and no one has any way of tracking what may have happened along the way. Just because a gun looks new doesn't mean it's not been messed with. The majority of these are reactivations and anything can happen along the way.In general the guns are well made with all the wear areas isolated to the trunion area with very little of wear on the stamped sheet metal areas, thus making them tougher (assuming your trunion is intact) than an AK, which rides on stamped soft rails like most other guns. I'd have to check the book, but those trunions are either cast or forged so they are very durable and this is not a common problem at all from what I've seen. In fact this is the first case I've heard or seen a photo of? I've actually never checked accuracy, but mine would be the most accurate of all currently with an aftermarket CNC cut rifled barrel installed. I should probably do that and like their other barrels 1/2 MOA or less. Too bad I don't have one with a scope mount, course then I would never have pulled the factory barrel? LOL I've not seen a cracked stock either because they are laminated and not all that thin in the spring area, and of course the glue keeps them together so cracking is unlikely . Likely early ones may not have been laminated and IIRC the repro stock a guy scammed me on is not laminated, this would then be a weak area. If you want to see a thin spot shine a bright flashligh under the stock in the manual hole area.....that's thin! My rifle was indeed messed with, being a DEWAT for most of its history. One of Troy's late war StG-44's which was in all matching and unmolested condition, never cut or DEWATed, experienced the same failure of the bolt front end extending out of the ejection port. I chocked it up to variation in parts tolerance between bolt and machined trunnion as-built for that rifle, combined with some small potential wear due to age, and the design of the narrow bolt guide surfaces themselves. The narrow arc of the right guide surface leaves little room for excess play without issue. If the entire area of the receiver were bulged by OOB damage as you said, that would certainly cause this faulty condition. It just take the right conditions for this to happen, and thankfully it's not common. The rifle trunnions are all forged, so they are very strong. The hairline crack along the grain at the thin area happens to laminated stocks too. It may not be evident in your rifle, but it's a well known phenomenon among those collector's rifles I know of. It's not serious unless you're in the habit of whacking your stock against tree trunks. No worries. Despite it's checkered history, the MP-44 is still the crown jewel of my tiny collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptMax Posted February 29, 2020 Report Share Posted February 29, 2020 Congrats on your gun, you will love it! Heres mine, amnesty registered bring back from the Bulge in 44. Erma gun with original finish. Ive displayed this at the Knob Creek show a couple times over the years. I have six original mags but not the original pouches! This is my favorite gun of any I own.CaptMax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taeelec Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Nice CaptMax! Todd in Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFA amnesty Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Congrats on your gun, you will love it! Heres mine, amnesty registered bring back from the Bulge in 44. Erma gun with original finish. Ive displayed this at the Knob Creek show a couple times over the years. I have six original mags but not the original pouches! This is my favorite gun of any I own.CaptMaxEarly butt stock.... nice. Is your weapon marked MP43 or is it an early 44? Love the history on your MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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