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MP30/34 on Gunbroker


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Class 3 Fully Transferable WW2 German Steyr MP34 Sub Machine Gun - Machine Guns at GunBroker.com : 926998255

 

A little pricey at this point, but what do you guys think? I know there's a lot of wisdom on this board and would like to hear your opinions before I make offer.

I don't know the buyer. I did ask him if he would deal with a C&R.

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Since its running in 9MM Luger / 9X19 parabellum the bolt, barrel and top cover have been swapped with what appear to be MP34 parts from a Portuguese contract kit.
It doesn't appear the original parts are included, which is a shame as they are all serial numbered to the gun.
A 1933 date is early, I think that would have been Austrian issue.
I didn't see any markings from the outfit that activated the gun.
The WW2 German proofs on the (later) MP-34 parts make sense, but the same on the MP-30 parts strike me as odd, but history is full of oddities.
The original 9MM Steyr bolt is longer (more mass) with a slot milled down the center to clear a block in the top cover.
The 9MM Luger bolt lacks that slot so the top cover was swapped out.
The block that was added to the front of the magazine well seems to be bigger than what is really needed (it isn't an elegant solution).
Also, I spoke to a gent who used the 9MM Steyr mags for his MP-30 that is converted to 9MM Luger, and it runs just fine.
I am very interested to see what the reserve is and what the gun closes at on auction.

Richard

Edited by APEXgunparts
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Richard

In your opinion are the Waffenampts genuine or repops?

If they are counterfeit, they subtract from rather than add to the value of the gun.

 

 

I can't really speak to the originality of the Waffenampts on the MP-30 parts.

It isn't my area of expertise.

The Waffenampts on the MP-34 sourced pieces I would assume are legit as I have seen a number of them marked that way.

 

Richard

 

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It's kind of ugly? mixmaster of parts and cobbled up to theoretically make it run.

No reason to use those magazines or adapter since 9mm runs fine in the 9x23 mags in my gun.

The markings look legit, but so many parts are not original I don't see that it matters much?

The barrel generally sits flush at the end, so the reactivation may not have gone that well all things considered?

Needs further work, but could be a nice shooter for sure.

Price is anyone's guess?

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All original gun would likely top out at over $30K.

 

As Johnson pointed out, this gun is somewhat of a Frankenstein creation.

 

Really a shame it wasn't kept all original -- someone just had to modify it.

 

My guess on the final sales price: mid to high 20s.

Edited by maxfaxdude
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I don't know that anything is "wrong", but from the pictures it appears seated a little deeper than others I've seen. Could be part of the reac. process or the length of the kit barrel? Either way, it's an open bolt gun and should fire as is.

 

There is no "conversion", the guns were set up to screw different barrels to easily swap calibers. The .45 obviously needs a different bolt.

I have IIRC a 9x23 barrel, but it's useless today with 9mm luger being the preferred caliber. Strangely the smaller mags had been harder to find IMO, but the rumor had always been that shorter cartridges didn't function in the bigger mags. Not in my experience though? I use the big mags and they were/are cheap.

 

The deac process needs to be cleaned up and the gun should be a fine shooter. I'm guessing when these were brought in the bolts were somehow demilled since the majority seem to have had bolts replaced from kits, some of which were redone to be used with original top covers, and most others where the bolt and compatible top cover were replaced together?

 

Needs work, not matching, but as Maxfaxdude points out will be reflected in the final price if the seller really want's to sell at market price. What is rare are original matching un-messed with guns which I'm not sure I've ever seen? They are all reactivated in one form or another, but I'm sure there are some with original parts.

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The bolts for the MP-34 are available in at least 2 different length's.
The length of the body of the bolt is where the difference is, the front / smaller diameter appears the same on the various 9MM bolts.
The 9MM Luger bolt body is shorter / has less mass.
The MP30 bolts have a slot milled on top lengthwise, not too deep, for the feature that keeps you from opening the cover when the bolt is locked back.
SOME MP34 bolts have 2 slots cut across the top of the bolt, intended to engage a bolt lock that is mounted to the top cover in front of the rear sight (the gun at auction has this)
There is a marking under the rear sight leaf indicating what caliber the gun was originally set up for.

APEX has PLENTY of the MP34 magazines in the longer 9MM size, no worries about locating a source for them!

 

Another note, the NFA forms for the gun at auction must indicate MP-34, so the next owner will have the challenge of convincing the NFA branch that this is really an MP-30!

It can be done, but you need to craft your "argument" with supporting documentation!

Richard

Edited by APEXgunparts
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The gun is an MP30, Austrians manufacture and so marked, '33 dated, preMP34, and would have originally been in .30 Mauser using the long bolt and .30 Mauser barrel.

So to complete this gun an MP30 topcover, long bolt and .30M barrel would be required.
A friend has talked with the owner and allegedly the barrel was deactivated and both the bolt and the breech were modified to get the gun functioning.

There is a gristly hole on the bottom of the shroud at the bbl/rec joint where a pin was removed and would need some serious cosmetic repair at that site.

I just finished a very labor intensive reactivation if an MP34 for a good customer who is focussed on collecting these guns and was interested in this current offering. Having done half a dozen reactivations of MP30s and 34s, and I do NO cutting of shrouds or any other major and intrusive surgeries, preserve the finish and make the reac invisible, I advised my customer to leave these types of costly and often damaged DEWATs alone and concentrate on purchase of original, non-DEWAT guns that are correct and complete. Higher initial cost, but MUCH better investment. Caveat emptor.....

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I agree with Bob about buying the best one available and NOT the project with a discounted price.
90 year old SMG or MG parts are not easy to locate and fabricating is not inexpensive.
The "classic's" tend to have hand fit and numbered parts too.
Not a lot of people understand the relationship of one part to another and can properly fit them.

Richard

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All good in theory, but I don't think I've ever seen a correct matching complete MP30 for sale in 15 years? And if so, what would the price point be? When these were $1200 with a minty matching gun at $1500, with several to choose from, maybe that was a good strategy then when nobody collected or wanted them? This ain't the 70's or 80's.

 

I discontinued that line of thinking fairly recently when I realized I was wrong when advising a buddy. He bought what was in his budget which was ugly, but reasonably priced relatively speaking. He's had the gun for a while, shot it, cleaned it up and stuck a few bucks into it to make it presentable, and nothing's come along again anywhere near that price range. The next gun available a couple years later, while much nicer, went for nearly double the price. He's rode up price appreciation in the meantime and had a TON of fun along the way. Buy what you can, when you can, and upgrade later if possible or necessary.

 

Making this gun correct is impossible, making it presentable and reliable is hundreds of dollars.

 

No point in even attempting to change the model on the paperwork and unlikely they will do so on an individual form 4 transfer,because legally they can't.

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Not theory at all. Buyers come in infinite varieties, are satisfied in infinite numbers of ways and the MG collector hobby is increasingly expensive and complex. Briefly, there are buyers who have to take what they can get, when they can get it due to constant budget constraints but those are not the specific buyers I am advising to buy the best possible examples. These buyers have enough cash to buy just about anything that they want, anytime they want. It doesn't make sense for them to nickle and dime themselves with expensive DEWATs that come out of surgery overly refinished with 20% new made parts and a multi thousand dollar price tag for the work.
The issue has little to do with money and most to do with a buyer being able to be carefully selective and build a collection of the best examples they can find. Excellent examples of many different vintage MGs still come to market through different channels and if one has the cash to buy, step up and take advantage of the opportunity.
I've been fortunate to have done this with quite a number of MGs I own and they are the ones that give me the greatest satisfaction compared to those ones I have that were acquired mostly to have an example of the type above other considerations.

Good topic, but far too imvolved for these pages......

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I talked with my local SOT about a cosmetic repair to dewat hole in the receiver and we agreed that it looked like a minor enough fix. The Frankengun mix of 30/34 parts doesn't bother me as long as the price reflects that, However BRMCII's comments about the bolt and breech being modified have given me pause. A Billy Bob repair on either of those items could turn a less than pristine example of a fairly rare gun into either a major project or a useless piece of expensive junk.

 

I'm out of the bidding on this one, someone else can explore to find the reserve price.

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I'm just a budget buyer regardless of the gun and most guys here haven't had Robin Leach over to the house? It has to be a "value", but fortunately price isn't an issue. We acquired this dysfunctional upside down dewat recently that would be apparently subpar since it's just an example of a mismatched gun (oil cap doesn't match), matching tripod, correct Argentine scope (also mismatched to the gun), correct ammo box and a manual. Probably requires thousands of dollars of restoration. I didn't carefully select it, it just came along randomly, and I just bought it off a few lousy phone pics I was texted. I'm certain it's not anywhere near the best, but it was in the low budget area for a guy that has relatively little interest in Maxims and doesn't budget much for them. I'll be nickel and diming this one until it's cobbled up to a semi respectable level, but it will take a back seat to some barrel work and Sten work that is a higher priority.

I will admit it is growing on me, but so is the new Austen.

 

The MP30 has a replacement bolt, barrel, and top cover that all fit with likely no effort once the old barrel was removed. It's an open bolt gun that will fire with a barrel and a hammer, it's not rocket science. The reactivation didn't go well cosmetically speaking, but the gun, if refinished and cleaned up could be the subject of magazine articles and a highly praised collector item if presented by the right people, who generally fail to note their stuff is mismatched and refinished, or maybe in a video by supposedly those with great knowledge of these guns! Then you ask sky high prices for this desecrated artwork out of your esteemed collection and the buyers assume they are getting top shelf stuff! LOL

 

The seller has been at it for years, eventually it will find a new home.. they all do.

20220306_1205371.jpg

Edited by johnsonlmg41
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  • 2 months later...

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