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Carelessness ... Accidental Discharge


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Last week I had an experience that proves no matter how safe you are handling firearms it only takes a split second of carelessness for someone else to end things for you.

To make a long story short, a guy brought in a rifle to be worked on. He carried it in with no magazine in the weapon, and I asked him to make sure his weapon was clear as the bolt was forward. Before I could even react he replied "Oh, it's empty" and pulled the trigger. My head was two feet away from the muzzle blast of a 30 caliber round, which whizzed by me, through the ceiling and blew out a roof tile. If I could have recovered quickly enough, I would have wrapped his rifle around his neck. I suffered a concussion, and temporary hearing loss in my right ear.
I know it was an accident, but this illustrates that nothing can be taken for granted, and you cannot be too careful. A new sign on the door states that all bolts/actions must be open, in all weapons to enter.
The rifle owner still has not recovered from the shock of the accident ... He gave his rifle away the next day.
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Hey Oldtrooper,

 

Glad you are still with us. I mean really? This guy verifies that the gun is unloaded by pulling the trigger! Aside from your state of shock I'd have wrapped it around his head!

 

I've often assumed that everyone has been taught proper firearms handling as Dad made sure of it for our family. The rules are simple. He broke the rule that says you treat every firearms as if it were loaded.

 

Hope your hearing recovers.

 

While not a person to litigate, I'd charge him for damage to the building before it rains in the attic.

 

Take care,

 

Grasshopper

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I am so glad you are ok. I own a gun shop and I routinely have customers bringing in firearms. I always ask that the firearm be handed to ME, muzzle down, for the check clear for this exact reason. I have not had an ND so far, but I know my number will be up one of these days. We all deal with firearms on a daily basis and we often get complacent with how deadly they can be... It is great to have a sobering reminder - thanks for sharing.

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I remember in one training class the instructor always said to check and clear the action. However he always wanted us to pull the trigger (aimed downrange of course) but I always thought that was not a good practice to pull trigger to "prove" the chamber is empty. It builds in bad habits.

 

Well glad you didn't accidently get shot. I would also call it a negligent discharge instead of an accidental discharge.

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I don't go to public ranges anymore because I've seen too much crazy behavior in the past few years. I don't remember that it used to be such a problem.

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that was no accident. It was negligent, pure and simple.

 

an accident is the guy trips walking in the door over his own feet, drops the rifle, a live cartridge from the counter gets hit and flies up in the air and lands in the chamber as the bolt closes and the sear breaks off and the firing pin sets off the cartridge .

 

the dude is lucky you are not suing him for a million dollars. Stories like this are all around. Luckily you are still alive to tell it .

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Any unintentional discharge where no one is injured (yeah someone could have but they weren't) is a good teaching opportunity, not a reason to go off half cocked on the guy who's probably more scared than you. However, I would suggest that the customer should be paying for the damage or at least the deductible. Edited by b_san
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We learn more from our our mistakes than we do from our successes, sometimes the lessons can be hard. As a ppg pilot, I have made it a rule to learn from other peoples mistakes, you may not live long enough to learn from your own.

As a big game guide that guided many mountain lion hunts, there is a reason I only allowed single action revolvers, in Africa on the other and I would have preferred my Thompson when a leopard attacked our tracker who was just a few feet to my right.

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Any unintentional discharge where no one is injured (yeah someone could have but they weren't) is a good teaching opportunity, not a reason to go off half cocked on the guy who's probably more scared than you. However, I would suggest that the customer should be paying for the damage or at least the deductible.

He offered to pay any expenses, but I had some leftover shingles so I replaced it myself ... I'm not a litigious type guy. Another risk was my 69 year old self up on the roof. Funny thing, I've been shot at as a soldier and police officer, but this was the first time I was really rattled.

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Any unintentional discharge where no one is injured (yeah someone could have but they weren't) is a good teaching opportunity, not a reason to go off half cocked on the guy who's probably more scared than you. However, I would suggest that the customer should be paying for the damage or at least the deductible.

He offered to pay any expenses, but I had some leftover shingles so I replaced it myself ... I'm not a litigious type guy. Another risk was my 69 year old self up on the roof. Funny thing, I've been shot at as a soldier and police officer, but this was the first time I was really rattled.

Thank you for your service on both arenas and glad you survived both accounts.

 

Possibly being in a closed environment without hearing protection would play a large part. Also as a civilian you wouldn't be as mentally prepared for a shot being fired vs when you were serving (speculation on my part).

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On occasion I help a friend at his gun shop. Anytime someone brings in a firearm for repair, an appraisal or to sell I check it myself.

 

It seems the ones that assure you that the gun is unloaded are the ones that have a forgotten round or loaded magazine in it, I just politely tell them that for the safety of all that handle that gun I need to be sure it's safe. Fortunately I have only had about one a year that was inadvertently left loaded.

 

I just politely tell them "This is for our safety as well as yours and patrons."

Edited by SHOVELHEADRIDER
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  • 2 months later...

Whenever I take a firearm into my local gun shop to put on consignment, I always demonstrate the firearm is unloaded by opening the action while keeping the firearm pointed in a safe direction. It is common courtesy to do so before handing a firearm to someone else IMO.

 

When I was a kid, I was taught:

 

1. Assume any gun is loaded until proven otherwise.

2. Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction at all times.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.

 

Later in formal training, I was taught:

 

1. Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction at all times (maintain muzzle control).

2. Assume any gun is loaded until proven otherwise.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond.

 

The difference of course being the order of #1 and #2. The logic being in the second set that if a gun does go off inadvertently it will cause no harm if it's pointed in a safe direction.

 

Because I was taught the first set when I was a kid I always think in those terms to this day.

 

As I write this, I see where Alec Baldwin killed someone and injured another with a "prop firearm" on a movie set:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/21/entertainment/rust-film-accident/index.html

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I have not yet read the details on the Baldwin incident but I have worked on many movies over the years, in fact I was just on set this Monday on a film when I witnessed the prop man methodically go over the safety precautions and the chain of custody when handing the pistol to the stunt man next to me. With all the precautions and steps taken nowadays to insure a projectile cannot be fired I can not even begin to imagine how this took place. Live rounds are not used, at least I have never been witness to this on a film. I’ll wait with interest to hear the full investigation into this, it should be very interesting to say the least.

 

One thing is fairly certain, someone in this fiasco is going to prison. We can only hope that it's Mr. Baldwin.

Edited by Mike Hammer
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Love triangle. She was getting ready to let the cat out of the bag.. The perfect murder. Alex just wanted it to go away.

I have come to the same solution because that seems like the only plausible explanation. All that's coming out now about the events that supposedly happened are a real stretch of the imagination.

The Assistant director supposedly hands Baldwin a real gun with live rounds in the chambers. Baldwin proceeds to point the gun at the woman cinematographer at close range in the chest and shoot.

This seems so absurd it's really unbelievable. Firstly live rounds, (bullet and powder charge) are not even used in films anymore. They are even getting away from using blanks and just adding the shot sounds in post production, just witnessed this a few days ago.

Secondly, an Assistant director does not load or handle the actors props and give them to the actors. The property master always does that. Thirdly, the prop master always is supposed to have custody the weapon and instruct the actor as to what he has and how to use it, he then shows the actor all the cylinders to acknowledge the gun is fitted with blanks and in some cases completely unloaded. He then informs the actor that the chain of custody is now his and the actor acknowledges that he has a safe weapon. The actor is always instructed as to what they have and to use safety precautions and not play or point the gun at anyone or even dry fire the gun.

 

Why would he even be pointing the gun at the cinematographer and shooting? She is not even part of the action. And there is some talk that he fired more than one round as well. No, the whole story stinks to high heaven. Somebody (or more than than one person) will be in an orange jumpsuit soon.

 

MH

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The camera was apparently positioned to get a "down the throat" shot of Baldwin firing the gun. Both the cinemaphotographer and the director would have been behind the camera so that explains what happened. What is not explained is how the armorer let live ammo on the set much less loaded into one of the prop guns. The union production crew is reported to have walked off the set and the producers had apparently hired a local "expert" as an armorer and the subsequent safeguards were obviously inadequate.

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The camera was apparently positioned to get a "down the throat" shot of Baldwin firing the gun. Both the cinemaphotographer and the director would have been behind the camera so that explains what happened. What is not explained is how the armorer let live ammo on the set much less loaded into one of the prop guns. The union production crew is reported to have walked off the set and the producers had apparently hired a local "expert" as an armorer and the subsequent safeguards were obviously inadequate.

Yes, just learned of the positioning of the camera, that may explain why the gun was pointed in that direction. So everyone knew that the gun would be pointed at the camera, it apparently was in the script. That also raises possibilities or opportunities if people knew ahead of time. Who brought the live rounds to the set? Who loaded them into the gun and why? Why were not standard safety precautions followed? This goes way beyond criminal negligence. This appears to have made made to look like just an accident, but I say no way.

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The presence of live ammo should mean negligent homicide at the very least. ..

However if someone intentionally loaded live rounds....

 

 

 

I don't think any film Prop master or Armorer can claim ignorance when loading a gun with live rounds as opposed to blanks, they don't look anything alike, it had to be intentional, as well as somebody brought the live rounds to the set, had to be intentional as there is no other possible reason, live rounds do not exist on set they are forbidden.

 

Then there going to say some assistant just grabbed the gun off a cart and handed it to Baldwin without either of them checking the gun to see the loads, HA! I was born at night but not last night. Somebody or some people wanted something bad to happen, with deadly intent. They succeeded.

 

One thing is or certain, the woman's family will win a hundred million dollar or more lawsuit very easily, The production should be scrapped, and indictments should be issued as soon as they get to the facts, if that is possible.

 

This scenario sounds like it would have mad a great episode on "Colombo". Hell, maybe that's where the people got the idea.

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Mike H,

On another site someone posted a video from the set of one of the Halloween movies in which Jamie Lee Curtis is firing a rifle. The camera is protruding through a hole in a very substantial Lexan(?) shield behind which the crew is gathered. The Lexan is obviously there to stop the wads etc that are expelled from the barrel and would almost certainly be insufficient to stop a live round but live rounds are not supposed to be an issue.

 

Is this a standard device on all movie sets or were the Halloween crew being extra cautious? It takes a fair amount of energy to punch through a sheet of Lexan and had one been in use in this case it might have reduced the lethality of the projo

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Ever since the tragic Brandon Lee death there have been put in place strict rules regarding the use of firearms on films. I am not a member of the stunt union although I have worked side by side with many stuntmen, this whole scenario is ludicrous and unbelievable.

Playing every type of law enforcement people on many films, I have only been given dummy firearms to brandish or wear, (yes, even a Thompson), whenever guns shooting blanks were issued,I have never seen anything except the most careful precautions taken. I personally haven’t seen protective screens put up but in certain instances I believe it does take place.

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This gets even stranger. It turns out that the armorer Hannah Reed is Thell Reed's daughter. She has been around firearms her entire life and probably a good portion of it on movie sets. She would know and follow the established safety protocols almost instinctively. I would find it very hard to believe she is the one responsible for this.

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This gets even stranger. It turns out that the armorer Hannah Reed is Thell Reed's daughter. She has been around firearms her entire life and probably a good portion of it on movie sets. She would know and follow the established safety protocols almost instinctively. I would find it very hard to believe she is the one responsible for this.

 

Have you seen her FB page?? I don't find it at all hard to believe that she was/is incredibly incompetent at anything she does.

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/woman-charge-guns-alec-baldwins-movie-set-deletes-social-media-accounts/

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