Use of Newer Kahr Auto-Ordnance Drums in SMG?

[heavy artillery]

I apologize if this question has been asked, I did a thread search and didn't see anything.

 

There are new production L & C drum mags available from Kahr / Auto-Ordnance. The description is a little confusing to me. The description states "Works in most full auto models" followed by "Will only fit 1927-A1 Thompson models" and "Will NOT fit Thompson guns made in West Hurley, NY or before 1990."

 

It's possible the description caveats might be referring to semi models. I'm looking for clarity if these will fit and/or work in 21/28 Thompson SMGs? Will these fit a West Hurley 1928 SMG (with replaced mag catch) or is there a specific reason why WHs are called out?

 

I appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

[anjong-ni]

It sounds like a disclaimer mandated by the legal department. Dan here would know the facts.

 

My A-O W-H semi seems to accept drums from WW2, A-O, W-H, Kahr, and Taiwan, all of which seem dimensionally-similar.

 

The Kahr drums are a tight-fit at first, but the soft rubber-mallet dollies-'em in....Phil

[jpw43]

My new C drum works great in full auto. i believe it is Kahr, since I bougt it new 2 years ago.

The only newer l drums I have are the ones made in Taiwan, but they work perfectly, too.

[TSMG28]

Heavy artillery,

 

Since Kahr cannot manufacture full auto Thompsons for sale (post 1986), they focus their advertising on the semi guns they do make and sell. In addition, their C and L drums have shown inconsistent reliability with full auto guns. Given all of that, and their desire to avoid complaint calls, means you cannot count on their drums for full auto guns. The C drums overall are more reliable than their L drums. I would not rely on any Kahr L-drum to work in a full auto gun.

 

Since the Taiwan-made C and L drums fit perfectly and are 100% reliable in full auto, I recommend you purchase those for your use. You can get those from Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) at reasonable prices.

[bug]

Heavy artillery,

 

Since Kahr cannot manufacture full auto Thompsons for sale (post 1986), they focus their advertising on the semi guns they do make and sell. In addition, their C and L drums have shown inconsistent reliability with full auto guns. Given all of that, and their desire to avoid complaint calls, means you cannot count on their drums for full auto guns. The C drums overall are more reliable than their L drums. I would not rely on any Kahr L-drum to work in a full auto gun.

 

Since the Taiwan-made C and L drums fit perfectly and are 100% reliable in full auto, I recommend you purchase those for your use. You can get those from Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) at reasonable prices.

 

^^^THIS^^^

 

It sounds like you haven't bought anything yet so don't even take a chance with the WH or Kahr drums.

[john]

I have several West Hurley drums that operate (some marginally) as well as three Kahr L-drums. 2 of

the Kahrs run on 9 clicks, the Westies run but most require ten clicks.

ALL required a bit of tweeking, adjusting guides, etc before they'd dump all their ammo.

Got one Kahr L-drums that won't even slide into the slots....have to send that back and I guess they crunch the edges in a big vise to make them fit....so I'll try that first.

If you're looking for drums, I'd say buy used that already work, buy Taiwanese that work well or spend a bit more on WWII drums that most always work.

Edited June 4, 2020 by john

[MRCTMG]

I made the mistake of buying two new Kahr L drums for for my A-O Bridgeport 1928A1 last year. Neither would even fit on my Thompson, it took lots of filing and modification for them even to seat in the gun. Neither would run even after I got them to fit, usually would fire 1-2 rounds and then jam. Ended up sending them to another member of this forum to see if they would work on his Thompson, but he had no luck either.

I eventually acquired two WWII era Seymour L-drums, both of which work flawlessly.

As you did, I researched this forum before purchase, but the info I found was little ambiguous/confusing. In retrospect, I think I misunderstood that the
'modern Taiwanese" drums that are talked about here and "modern Kahr" drums are completely different. Taiwanese drums do appear to work very well with most Thompsons of 1921/28 vintage, but Kahr do not. I bought my modern drums off Gunbroker thinking all "modern" drums were Taiwanese. Not so! The majority of "new" modern drums for sale out there are Kahr manufactured. I looked into getting a Taiwanese drum, but their availability seems to fluctuate and they were out-of-stock at all the places I looked. Ended up going with the vintage Seymour drums(which were substantially more expensive than what a Taiwanese drum would have cost!)but at least they work reliably.

[TD.]

The subject of what is a Taiwan L drum can be confusing for those new to the Thompson community and forum. For those that see this thread, may I recommend the FAQ, section at the top of the Board:

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9897

 

For someone new to the community, I can imagine they will be overwhelmed by all the drums in this section. Scroll down until you find the Crosby reproduction drums and drums from Taiwan and or China. Those that have been at this forum years certainly remember the "Crosby Co." markings and the "Thompson" markings on the early drums. And the ground off "Thompson" markings. The current batch of Taiwan drums will not have these markings. One key is the price. New Taiwan L drums are normally priced under $200. New Kahr L drums are usually priced much higher. Numrich Arms or Gun Parts Corporation is usually a safe bet for the Taiwan L drums because they do not and will not sell Kahr Arms products. That said, if unsure, post a question on the forum with a link to the advertisement and a RKI will certainly help you.

 

As far as I know, Numrich Arms or Gun Parts Corporation is the only seller of the new Taiwan C drum. It is easy to identify because it is marked "GPC W. Hurley, N.Y." on the front cover. These new C drums usually sell for under $400.

[TSMG28]

Both the C and L drums currently show available at Numrich at the prices Tom mentioned above. Numrich occasional runs sales on these, so you may see a lower price from time to time.

 

The best way to confirm the Taiwan-made drums are the two dimples on the faceplate. There is a round indentation in the top center of the faceplate, just above the area where information is stamped. There is a second round indentation about 3/4 of the way to the right below the information area. I assume these are used by the manufacturer to insure the proper placement of the faceplates before they are spot welded. You can clearly see these in the pictures on the Numrich web site. This is a unique feature of the Taiwan-made drums.

 

The last L-drums I saw did not have the GPC, W. Hurley, NY on the front faceplate, but the C-drums do have this. After all of the challenges about trademark infringement as mentioned by Tom, the L-drums now have nothing stamped on the back plate and usually only have the winding instructions on the front plate.

[heavy artillery]

Thanks for all the feedback. Would this be a Taiwan drum? It appears to have the dimples noted by TSMG28. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/870312577#carousel-modal-view-item

[heavy artillery]

Thank you, TD. I had reviewed this thread before posting and it provided great background information.

 

The subject of what is a Taiwan L drum can be confusing for those new to the Thompson community and forum. For those that see this thread, may I recommend the FAQ, section at the top of the Board:

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9897

[TSMG28]

Heavy artillery,

 

Yes, that Gunbroker auction is one of the Taiwan drums.

[TD.]

TSMG28 is the authority on all Thompson drums. Thank you for posting! If you have a drum question, TSMG28 is the person to ask. And he will be at the All Thompson Show & Shoot with his fabulous drum display later this summer

 

The two dimples on the face plates of the Taiwan L drums is an excellent way to identify these drums from the modern Kahr L drums and the older West Hurley L drums. In addition, the older West Hurley L drums have a solid center shaft. The Taiwan L drums are a much better investment because they work!