wh20crazy Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 After finishing a stick mag the bolt stayed open as it should on my 1927A1. Now it won't close. I assume that either the pawl or spring is broken. Any thoughts on getting the gun apart so I can see what's wrong inside? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeTimmy Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 I don’t know what you should do, but be very wary of removing the pivot plate on an assembled gun. I remember reading that can make it virtually impossible to get apart. Hopefully someone who knows something will chime in soon. good luck, Timmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 Never ever take off the pivot plate!!!! Check to see if the firing pin is broken. You should be able to see in the hole if the front part is there. If it's broken the back part nose dives into the trigger parts locking things up. That's bad but it can be fixed...Other things can happen but start there and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thanks for the tip. I considered removing the pivot plate, but thought it might get worse. The firing pin looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtrooper Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Did you check to see if your extractor popped out of the bolt and jammed back into the upper receiver? Unless staked the extractors are notorious for doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Good.. Not broken firing pin. Looks like an older gun with the old style firing pin. the extractor is also in its proper place indicated in the picture. Sometimes the pawl gets jammed against the trigger. The peened over pin that holds the lifter can get jammed against the pawl. with as much pressure rearwards on the bolt knob as you can try pushing the trigger forward maybe even with a little bit of a screwdriver not enough to break anything but that would be the next thing to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68coupe Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Dan once advised me to remove the safety lever (not the pivot plate) and try to trip the pawl with a small screwdriver. I had recently changed out the firing pin, and the bolt stuck to the rear, preventing disassembly to further fit the firing pin. Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 I don't think your firing pin is stuck back holding the bolt, but that safety removal tip is good. Ive seen the bolt knob break if inside and stick the action.. several other possibilities to try before you get out the chop saw or send it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Tonight's update: - The extractor appears to be in it's proper place. - I removed the safety. - There is a little movement in the bolt, so it's not frozen in place. It is still open, but I can pull it back a little & get it to lock by pulling up on the bolt handle. - In this position, I can pull the trigger & watch the sear block work up & down as it should (looking through the safety hole). - I can push the firing pin back & see the part that hits the sear block move, so I think the firing pin is ok. - I cannot see or feel the pawl. - There was no movement when I attempted to push the trigger forward. For what it's worth, this was the first magazine through the gun after taking the top of the gun apart to clean & oil the bolt, firing pin & springs. I did not disassemble anything in the trigger group. It locked up after the last round from a stick mag. It's a West Hurley. It's been a few years since I looked it up, but it was made in either '76 or '77 as I recall. I previously replaced the broken firing pin w/ a used one. I've run a few hundred rounds through it with no problems. Edited November 12, 2020 by wh20crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 Well if your trigger squeezes and is moving the sear as viewed through the safety hole then the pawl probably isn't sticking on that. Firing pin isn't broken so that's not sticking down into the trigger group. If you lock the bolt fully back with the bolt knob, does the trip lever move at all up and down? If it won't move that would also perhaps indicate that it's jammed with the pawl. If it moves up and down with the spring pressure supplied by the pawl spring then it may indicate something else is broken. FYI..the worst case of broken parts I've dealt with required a largish hole to be cut under the wood of the rear grip and then all the trigger parts cut into pieces small enough to come out that hole. The hole was eventually repaired, the repair being hidden by the wood fit. So that's last case scenario.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter kohler Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) would it be possible for the bolt hold open to be jammed or stuck in the upwards position? im not sure how it works inside the trigger housing. maybe pull the bolt handle to the rear while pushing it down? I know ive done this on mine a few times on my guns to hold the bolt back. just pushed the little lever upward in the magwell and it would hold the bolt back. Edited November 12, 2020 by peter kohler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 The trip lever moves freely up & down (no spring pressure, whether the bolt is locked w/ the knob or not. This has me thinking that either the trip lever or pawl is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 Since no spring pressure that rules out the other stuff so pawl most likely completely jammed in the up position. If you are really have with tools I may have a suggestion for you to try. Hard to articulate but if you want to try to call me I can walk you through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 That's mighty good of you. What tools do i need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 12, 2020 Report Share Posted November 12, 2020 I left you my phone number the messenger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter kohler Posted November 13, 2020 Report Share Posted November 13, 2020 waiting to hear the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Well.. What I was going to suggest was to remove the pivot plate far enough to take off the mag catch. (It's in the way)... Then using two pins of appropriate size push out the pivot plate while you slide the pins in. The pins will keep parts in place... Then slide only the front pin back to the left so only the pawl can be freed... If the pawl is jammed or broken you may be able to get it lowered enough to allow the bolt forward. Keep bolt locked back with bolt knob until you can tell if the pawl will move. Your gonna want to have something in a vice during this so you have your hands free. Keep going with disassembly from there if the bolt will go forward.. don't let any more parts to come off the pins. Edited November 17, 2020 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68coupe Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 Your post suggests that you never heard back. Well, darnit, I was hoping to learn of the resolution. Still impatiently awaiting the return of my form 1. Glaciers move faster. Karl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 We talked today, just an hour ago. Basically walked through the process above and got things apart. Apparently there was some debris (brass fragment) that was locking parts up. Nothing broken luckily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 deerslayer, Thank you so much for your help this afternoon! Like so many things in life, it's not that hard if you know what you're doing. lol Everyone else, deerslayer walked me through the procedure above. With a little wiggling of the pins I put in place of the pivot plate & pulling the trigger, the bolt released. Once I got it apart, a chunk of brass came out. Thankfully, nothing was broken. I've taken it all apart, cleaned & lubed it & put it back together. I'll get it to the range for a functional check this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter kohler Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 excellent news!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencen Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 deerslayer, Thank you so much for your help this afternoon! Like so many things in life, it's not that hard if you know what you're doing. lol Everyone else, deerslayer walked me through the procedure above. With a little wiggling of the pins I put in place of the pivot plate & pulling the trigger, the bolt released. Once I got it apart, a chunk of brass came out. Thankfully, nothing was broken. I've taken it all apart, cleaned & lubed it & put it back together. I'll get it to the range for a functional check this weekend. by chance got any pictures of the brass pieces, curious how big a piece jambs it up, any ideas how it got there other than casing shavings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Looks like a primer cup. It takes a special skill to get one of those in there. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh20crazy Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 I took it to the range yesterday. It ran perfectly! Side note: A buddy had his chronograph set up, so I ran my plinking loads over it. They average 100fps faster through the 1927 than the 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now