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Over priced MP 44 on subguns board


M17ap
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Seen some high prices for mp44 lately. $25 to $28 k would be reasonable. If a really nice gun. Nowadays any rough pieces even rebuilds are called really nice. Don't know who's buying these but must have cash to throw away. Junk will remain junk a quality piece will grow in value. JMO
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It's a sad state. About two yrs ago, was trying to help a member of another collector's forum spend his hard earned cash - not an easy task. People wanting tall $ for examples that look to have been run over. Several years ago, I talked to a long time owner who purchased his goods during the amnesty from people who suspected a .gov scam. Said he told the guy who sold him the MP-44 no way he was paying more than $75 for that old thing. My first year attending KCR (2002), they could be found in the 7-8k range w/out looking too hard. In 2008 I took the plunge for about double that amount. Now people want mid-high 20s for lesser condition examples.

 

Maybe we really do all live "the good old days" every day.

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i like the finish 1/2 rust for $32,000 described as NICE.....makes me think he is getting advertising advice from Frank

 

id call it poor and sell it for $22,000

 

keep an eye on it...it will sell...someone will think its beautiful and original/relic looking....ive been surprised at what he can sell before

 

i think he still has a mac advertised as excellent with rust on it

 

it seems like he is lowering his standards as time goes on....he is getting into lower grade guns...he sure has a lot of stock right now

Edited by huggytree
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Hole could be from dewat barrel. Have seen guns that had a welded chamber and had one or two holes drilled and filled with weld to weld barrel to receiver per ATF rules. Reason was to make it harder to reactivate. Many different ways were used to make guns dewats back in the 50's & early 60's. If reactivated they should have refilled the hole with weld to make it look better.
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Hole could be from dewat barrel. Have seen guns that had a welded chamber and had one or two holes drilled and filled with weld to weld barrel to receiver per ATF rules. Reason was to make it harder to reactivate. Many different ways were used to make guns dewats back in the 50's & early 60's. If reactivated they should have refilled the hole with weld to make it look better.

Dewat was exactly what I was thinking, but wanted to get those more knowledgeable like yourself to chime in first :) Hard to believe that is the asking price for a dewat. A nice finish, untouched original may always fetch the next higher price because someone will pay for the condition alone. Hard to say what the thinking is here, but then again they dont pop up often.

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Yes, typical DEWAT barrel pin, but the holes were not filled with weld for the DEWAT process. A pin was driven into the hole and the welded on the exposed end. Pins could be mild steel rod or hardened drill rod that would become harder with the welding. I’ve reactivated quite a few registered DEWATs of different types with pinned barrels. Pinning the barrels was not a treasury mandated process. I believe the importers and retailers welding and selling DEWATS began the practice after there was media attention to the “problem” of owners of DEWATS reactivating them but not registering them. Pinning the barrels does increase the difficulty of casual reactivation. The main problem with live MGs at the time was that they were not worth much. Once an MG was registered, which was free, a live MG that was worth $50 suddenly couldn’t be sold without paying the $200 transfer tax out from the private owner, raising its cost to $250! Worse yet, the the buyer had to pay the $200 tax to get it into his name plus dealer’s fee for the transferring dealer in his state. So now the gun had $450 associated with its value. At least an in-state transfer was only one tax. So, there was little incentive to have live MGs, which was the purpose of the registration scheme of the NFA34. FWIW
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Yes, typical DEWAT barrel pin, but the holes were not filled with weld for the DEWAT process. A pin was driven into the hole and the welded on the exposed end. Pins could be mild steel rod or hardened drill rod that would become harder with the welding. Ive reactivated quite a few registered DEWATs of different types with pinned barrels. Pinning the barrels was not a treasury mandated process. I believe the importers and retailers welding and selling DEWATS began the practice after there was media attention to the problem of owners of DEWATS reactivating them but not registering them. Pinning the barrels does increase the difficulty of casual reactivation. The main problem with live MGs at the time was that they were not worth much. Once an MG was registered, which was free, a live MG that was worth $50 suddenly couldnt be sold without paying the $200 transfer tax out from the private owner, raising its cost to $250! Worse yet, the the buyer had to pay the $200 tax to get it into his name plus dealers fee for the transferring dealer in his state. So now the gun had $450 associated with its value. At least an in-state transfer was only one tax. So, there was little incentive to have live MGs, which was the purpose of the registration scheme of the NFA34. FWIW

Bob...so the hole was drilled up tru the bottom and into the barrel? Some sort of pin tapped into place and welded to exposed part of the gun where the hole is drilled?? Are these barrels replaced or repaired?? Edited by Petroleum 1
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Yup same gun that was in the auction from Julia. Same serial number and same hole in the bottom.

 

https://jamesdjulia.com/item/52520-5-397/

 

 

For some reason I can't get the website to let me log in to see what it sold for.

 

Forgotten weapons reported that the gun sold for $23K with fees. $9K mark in 1 month.

Edited by Mongo
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Yes 23K was the final price....sort of. You don't know, maybe it was Rueben's gun to begin with and it didn't make reserve?

Reading is fundamental. The description doesn't say just "nice condition", it says "nice BATTLEFIELD condition" which to me means dragged behind a car through the mud, welded on, drilled, shot a lot, etc. Of course cleaned up and dusted off for photos. Replaced barrel....I hope so, you wouldn't want a hole in the chamber. Non matching op rod group fairly common. I'd call it about middle of the road these days as far as what's been for sale. At least he cleaned off the butt stock? You'll note he never describes the guns for sale anymore after having been bitten hard by customers who claimed they didn't get what was described. You buy strictly by photos and price alone which is probably a good idea for him.

 

So Bob, I see you didn't certify this one as being dragged through the mud and reactivated? Apparently Reuben was able to parse down the Julia's description all on his own? LOL

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Notice how every year the guns for sale get in worse cond. no matter who is selling them and the mags you get with them are even worse. Sign of the times.. Maybe that is why I reflect back so much.. These are not good times. this is what's left after the Good Times have left the building.

 

Colt21 A Ron

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The good times have just relocated to places you don't go. Fact is Colt thompsons on average are in better overall condition than they were 40 years ago due to so many being refinished. They are just not cheap like when you were active in it. And yes even when adjusted for inflation, you older guys were buying on the cheap!

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maybe the higher quality guns are passed from collector to collector and not through Sturm or GB...

 

even 2 years ago there were nice 1928a1's...now all i see are refinished M1's...weekly a new refinished/pitted M1a1 for $24k....no 1928's in weeks/months...only one i can remember was ruben with a refinished 1928AC smooth barrel that sold in 2-3 weeks for $27

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Has nothing to do with who when or why, The guns today are less cond. and crap mags or drums with them. They do the same thing with Lugers and P-38's I know been into them for over 40 years plus. along with everything else. And laying $40 grand on the counter for Thompsons over 35 years ago was bucks also. And at that time most did not even want to look. And as far as refinished yep more today for sure. They want the pretty guns also. And who wants a collection of volume of RUST, DENTS DINGS AND PATINA? And Mismatched cobbled together stuff.

 

LIFES TOO SHORT for that one.

Ask the guy who was shopping for a nice Johnson rifle or FG-42 or MP-38 for years. Today it seems they snap up what they can find. everybody have a good 2018...

 

Colt 21A Ron

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Had a talk today with Sam from Practical Solutions...he says its going crazy right now and wait times are getting longer....says lots of guns are being sold with issues and he is getting lots of extra work because of this...so it looks like there may be a theme...people are selling their crap and BSing it to unload it..my latest gun had a couple of lies told to me over the phone when describing various potential issues....the gun is in my hands and i just accept it and move on....as i think most others do...once you have a machine gun your not shipping it back....doesnt mean your happy, just means you want a machine gun too much

 

at this point i dont think i could buy another machine gun w/o an airplane ticket......something ive never done, but i will agree that the market seems to be more dealing in junk more and more....

Edited by huggytree
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There is a lot of junk guns out there mismatched parts redone's stuff in past twenty years slopped together. And prior to May 19.1986 a bit much was getting thrown together for sure. Whatever they could make a buck on. And the only way some choice items come out is when items that have sat in collections for forty years. The original owner is no longer around. And it gets passed on to the kids or to his friends that might still be around. No reason to be a Vulture because it all gets turned around anyhow. And you get eaten and the gear gets split up anyways.

 

Heck some forty year old buyer today might be getting something from some 75 year old. And in 30 years he is doing the same turn around. If in 30 or 40 years we have the same country as we do now. No real guarantee of that.

 

So its best to enjoy what you can> shoot what you shoot. And not to get hung up on it anymore. A lot has changed in the past fifty years and A lot more for the next fifty or so....and 90% or more here won't be around anyways to say,

 

Even some internet board forums have gone the way of the Dinosaurs.....HISTORY we all enjoy it For A temporary Time.

 

Colt 21 A Ron

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  • 3 weeks later...

This isn't shocking. Shrinking supply, and an increasing number of buyers. The guns will get crappier and the prices will get higher. They were $50 at one time. Then $5k. I paid $16k for mine a couple years ago, and now they are in the $20ks+. Not surprised, and they will only go higher, and only get more used.

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