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Thompson Lubricant. Sperm Oil?


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In my reading of "The Thompson Submachine Guns" by Donald B. McLean 1967, there are constant references to the use of sperm oil for lubricating the Thompson. Reading the attributes of sperm oil it appears it was quite an excellent lubricant. It possessed outstanding high and low temperature lubrication. It did not congeal at low temperatures. It did not dry out or become gummy. It retained excellent lubrication at high temperatures and pressures. It was used in Jeep transmissions and most recently in the aerospace industry.

Since sperm oil is no longer available what is the best substitute or the best lubricant for the Thompson these days? Every new lube that comes to market is superior to all others per the advertisements, it's like the lube of the month club.

 

I found this formula on another form as the best substitute for sperm oil, 2 parts STP, 4 parts Marvel Mystery Oil, 4 parts Dexron ATF.

 

What do the RKI's on this form use or recommend?

Edited by Tiz
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Every year some company introduces an over-priced "miracle" gun lube. I have been using nothing but Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil for 30 years and have never worn out a gun; including belt-feds.

Thanks Frank. If you use it, that is as good an endorsement as we can get, in my humble opinion. What viscosity do you use?

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  • 3 months later...

When I first posted this question a lot of good information came forth. I am posting the below response from PK on the subject just as an FYI for anyone interested.

 

"It may sound contrary, but friction is your friend when it comes to delayed blowback systems, to a point. Unfortunately, we pretty well ran ourselves out of Sperm Wales some time ago, but we have made strides in refining petroleum.

 

I do not recommend grease, except for a small dab on the hammer where it contacts the receiver. I also do not recommend any of the ‘super lube’ oils. Whale oil was a simple as it got in the day, plain light mineral oil is as close as you get today, such as Hoppes Gun Oil."

 

PK

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Sperm oil works better for burning in lamps and Candles. I too, prefer the Synthetics like Mobil 1 Oil and wheel bearing grease.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

 

 

 

I was just passing along PK's recommendations for lubricating Thompsons for the good of all the board members. I doubt anyone has more experience with Thompsons than PK. I was curious regarding the recommended use of sperm whale oil referenced by the OD during WWII and how it compares with todays super wiz bang, cutting edge, best ever, scientifically engineered gun oils that are come out so often. It appears simple is better and not everything that is old is obsolete, like the Thompson and the M2.

 

I understand the lamps and candles reference but it appears sperm whale oils was a very good lubricant. Sperm whale oil has a fairly low viscosity. It retains its viscosity at high temperature better than most oils. It does not tend to become rancid, dry out, or corrode metals. It is fairly resistant to oxidization. Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. Sperm whale oil was used in lubricants because of its exceptional lubricity and heat stability.

It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it could withstand high temperatures. Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry as well. (Ref from Wikipedia.)

Edited by Tiz
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Since I don't have or use Mobile 1, I found a recipe for the sperm oil replacement, I made some, it does smell like ATF (not the Feds) but I like the smell. I like using it and my TSMG runs just fine on it. In fact I use it on my other hardware too as it won't evaporate off or dry off. I do use synthetic wheel bearing grease also. In reading the Fort Knox manual for cleaning the TSMG and references to the sperm whale oil got me looking for an equivalent for doing things as was the case back those days. FWIW.

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Sperm oil works better for burning in lamps and Candles. I too, prefer the Synthetics like Mobil 1 Oil and wheel bearing grease.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

 

 

 

I was just passing along PK's recommendations for lubricating Thompsons for the good of all the board members. I doubt anyone has more experience with Thompsons than PK. I was curious regarding the recommended use of sperm whale oil referenced by the OD during WWII and how it compares with todays super wiz bang, cutting edge, best ever, scientifically engineered gun oils that are come out so often. It appears simple is better and not everything that is old is obsolete, like the Thompson and the M2.

 

I understand the lamps and candles reference but it appears sperm whale oils was a very good lubricant. Sperm whale oil has a fairly low viscosity. It retains its viscosity at high temperature better than most oils. It does not tend to become rancid, dry out, or corrode metals. It is fairly resistant to oxidization. Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. Sperm whale oil was used in lubricants because of its exceptional lubricity and heat stability.

It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it could withstand high temperatures. Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry as well. (Ref from Wikipedia.)

Completely understand, General Motors use to sell a "Gear oil additive " for use on limited slips that was Sperm Whale Oil. People loved it. Sold until the early 70's then went synthetic, clutch pack started chattering again. Was not that good in high heat condition. .

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Sperm oil works better for burning in lamps and Candles. I too, prefer the Synthetics like Mobil 1 Oil and wheel bearing grease.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

 

 

 

I was just passing along PK's recommendations for lubricating Thompsons for the good of all the board members. I doubt anyone has more experience with Thompsons than PK. I was curious regarding the recommended use of sperm whale oil referenced by the OD during WWII and how it compares with todays super wiz bang, cutting edge, best ever, scientifically engineered gun oils that are come out so often. It appears simple is better and not everything that is old is obsolete, like the Thompson and the M2.

 

I understand the lamps and candles reference but it appears sperm whale oils was a very good lubricant. Sperm whale oil has a fairly low viscosity. It retains its viscosity at high temperature better than most oils. It does not tend to become rancid, dry out, or corrode metals. It is fairly resistant to oxidization. Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. Sperm whale oil was used in lubricants because of its exceptional lubricity and heat stability.

It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it could withstand high temperatures. Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry as well. (Ref from Wikipedia.)

Completely understand, General Motors use to sell a "Gear oil additive " for use on limited slips that was Sperm Whale Oil. People loved it. Sold until the early 70's then went synthetic, clutch pack started chattering again. Was not that good in high heat condition. .

 

I've been told by reliable sources that originally GM's Dexron automatic transmission fluid was sperm whale oil based, as well.

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Sperm oil works better for burning in lamps and Candles. I too, prefer the Synthetics like Mobil 1 Oil and wheel bearing grease.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

 

 

 

I was just passing along PK's recommendations for lubricating Thompsons for the good of all the board members. I doubt anyone has more experience with Thompsons than PK. I was curious regarding the recommended use of sperm whale oil referenced by the OD during WWII and how it compares with todays super wiz bang, cutting edge, best ever, scientifically engineered gun oils that are come out so often. It appears simple is better and not everything that is old is obsolete, like the Thompson and the M2.

 

I understand the lamps and candles reference but it appears sperm whale oils was a very good lubricant. Sperm whale oil has a fairly low viscosity. It retains its viscosity at high temperature better than most oils. It does not tend to become rancid, dry out, or corrode metals. It is fairly resistant to oxidization. Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. Sperm whale oil was used in lubricants because of its exceptional lubricity and heat stability.

It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it could withstand high temperatures. Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry as well. (Ref from Wikipedia.)

Completely understand, General Motors use to sell a "Gear oil additive " for use on limited slips that was Sperm Whale Oil. People loved it. Sold until the early 70's then went synthetic, clutch pack started chattering again. Was not that good in high heat condition. .

 

I've been told by reliable sources that originally GM's Dexron automatic transmission fluid was sperm whale oil based, as well.

From the Dexron Wiki page It indeed was use in the Type B fluid

 

1973 - DEXRON-II©[edit]
200px-Quaker_State_ATF_Dexron-II%28C%29_
Quaker State ATF Dexron-II© GM License No. C-20109
200px-1973-1975_Quaker_State_Dexron-IIC_
1973-1975 Quaker State Dexron-II© GM License No. C-20109

The original Dexron (B) fluid, as well as earlier GM transmission fluids, used sperm whale oil as an additive to coat internal transmission parts to prevent corrosion and rust. The U.S. Endangered Species Act banned the import of sperm whale oil, so the Dexron (B) fluid additive package had to be reformulated.[12] In 1973, GM introduced Dexron-II(

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The loss of whale oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975 once Sperm whale oil was no longer available as sperm whale oil was used in transmission fluids up until it was outlawed. It appears we have been chasing a better lubricant ever since. Sometimes simple is better as PK advises.

Edited by Tiz
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The loss of whale oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975 once Sperm whale oil was no longer available as sperm whale oil was used in transmission fluids up until it was outlawed. It appears we have been chasing a better lubricant ever since. Sometimes simple is better as PK advises.

It won't be simple, with a push for Synthetic at 5.00 a quart, maybe one day, but I think guns will be a lot different and may not require oil

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The loss of whale oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975 once Sperm whale oil was no longer available as sperm whale oil was used in transmission fluids up until it was outlawed. It appears we have been chasing a better lubricant ever since. Sometimes simple is better as PK advises.

It won't be simple, with a push for Synthetic at 5.00 a quart, maybe one day, but I think guns will be a lot different and may not require oil

 

I've never lubed my Nerf or Airsoft guns.

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The loss of whale oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975 once Sperm whale oil was no longer available as sperm whale oil was used in transmission fluids up until it was outlawed. It appears we have been chasing a better lubricant ever since. Sometimes simple is better as PK advises.

It won't be simple, with a push for Synthetic at 5.00 a quart, maybe one day, but I think guns will be a lot different and may not require oil

 

I've never lubed my Nerf or Airsoft guns.

Don't have Airsoft , but use Spray Furniture wax on the Nerfs

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Every year some company introduces an over-priced "miracle" gun lube. I have been using nothing but Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil for 30 years and have never worn out a gun; including belt-feds.

Thanks Frank. If you use it, that is as good an endorsement as we can get, in my humble opinion. What viscosity do you use?

5-30 WT

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I recently acquired a Ruger 10-22 full auto trigger pack build by john Norell in Arkansas. I was fortunate enough to get a hold of John and ask some basic questions (great guy) and his advice maintaining the trigger pack was to use aerosol Rem Oil with Teflon and compressed air. DO NOT DISASSEMBLE.....clean every 500 to 750 rounds and enjoy.

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Sperm oil and whale oil (for lamps) are different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

I believe you are misreading the link you reference. "Sperm oil was particularly prized as an illuminant in oil lamps"

 

Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it can withstand high temperatures.[28] In the late 20th century, Jojoba oil was discovered to be a better substitute for high-friction applications because it is even more stable at high temperatures. This caused sperm oil's price to collapse to a tenth of its previous value.[29]

Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry.[30]

Sperm oil was used to protect metals from rust. A coat of sperm oil provided a temporary protection for the metal components in firearms, because it did not dry out or gum up.[31][32] It was the basis of the original (but not current) Rust-Oleum.

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Sperm oil and whale oil (for lamps) are different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil

I believe you are misreading the link you reference. "Sperm oil was particularly prized as an illuminant in oil lamps"

 

Sperm oil was a popular lubricant. It worked well for fine, light machinery such as sewing machines and watches because it is thin, does not congeal or dry out and does not corrode metals. It was also used in heavy machinery such as locomotives and steam-powered looms because it can withstand high temperatures.[28] In the late 20th century, Jojoba oil was discovered to be a better substitute for high-friction applications because it is even more stable at high temperatures. This caused sperm oil's price to collapse to a tenth of its previous value.[29]

Because of its very low freezing point, sperm oil saw widespread use in the aerospace industry.[30]

Sperm oil was used to protect metals from rust. A coat of sperm oil provided a temporary protection for the metal components in firearms, because it did not dry out or gum up.[31][32] It was the basis of the original (but not current) Rust-Oleum.

Correct. Plain whale oil is different from Sperm Whale oil. However, Sperm Whale oil, as well as being a lubricant, was as I quoted from the same link, "very much prized as an illuminant oil lamps as well".

Edited by Tiz
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