Jump to content

Spare Parts Box


Recommended Posts

 

In my earlier post on this thread I too said some ID would have been appropriate. But who or what is the ID going to stop? If some person down the road has the “intent” to deceive or commit fraud by “aging” these tins and passing them as originals, then a small hallmark is not going to stop anyone. It will be removed, filled, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 91
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Just use an "Altoids" or "Sucrets" tin. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

 

It's MUCH cheaper! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to risk offending the various government regulators (as if), politicians, etc., when I say, "Stay the hell out of honest gun owners lives!!!" http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif That is the real reason all this controversy and bickering among friends has occured. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif If our government would stay out of the business of regulating and interfering with legitimate commerce, and decimating one of our fundamental human rights, as codified in the Second Amendment, then we would not be having this conversation. If this were so, Colt and Savage would most likely still be producing, "real" Thompsons and accessories, and they would be relatively cheap. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Regards, Walter

 

P.S. While I think Kerry would be disasterous for America, I've been reconsidering support for the Libertarian Party. I have been following their convention on C-SPAN, and agree with most of their ideas and platform.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well-done forgeries, replicas, knock-offs, copies, new productions of out of production items (e.g., West Hurley Thompsons), etc. will always be with us.

 

There were forgeries and non-Van Goghs reputed to be Van Goghs while Van Gogh was still alive. At least one "Van Gogh" that sold for tens of millions of dollars is believed by many experts to be a forgery. The owner apparently refuses to let anyone examine it.

 

Some new production floor panels for 65-69 Mustangs and new production front fenders for Plymouth Superbirds and the similar Dodge Daytonas are better than the originals.

 

The artist's signature, the maker's trademark, and the like attempt but can not completely protect either the artist/maker or the buying public.

 

One with sophisticated enough equipment and the properly trained forensic expert could undoubtably tell a Greg Fox case from an old one and a Gordon H. parts box from an old one. The typical buyer at a gun show table probably could not but , then, it is doubtful that the typical buyer at a gun show will shell out $2500 for a parts box.

Edited by SecondAmend
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Second Amend,

Is Van Goth related to Vincent Van Gogh?......It hardley takes a forensic expert to differentiate between a Fox FBI/PD case and an original, but repro cases made from the 1950's on might be a little tougher to spot.

 

auto-ord,

Filing down the metal where the mark would be is gonna leave a tell tale sign. The potential problem of fraud arises when a future GH box seller commits the sin of omission in that the seller says, "I don't know if it is original or not since I don't know anything about them, and this one came wiith a case that was incluided with a TSMG I bought."

 

Mike,

Intrinsic value when applied to collectables is an oxymoron. Who would pay $40K for a non-working 1920's microphone? Yet people do.

 

JJ & W&B,

Colt TSMG's are an acquired taste like caviar. Some pallets are best suited for tuna fish. Stock up on Miracle Whip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arthur, I guess you do not disagree with my point of view, based on your lack of response!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I'm for free trade, laissez-faire govt. influence, etc. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif I assume that we are are on the same page, based on your lack of response to my statements!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Regards, Walter

 

P.S. Or, maybe you enjoy the present govt. regulation, because it enhances your bottom line! Is that free-trade Arthur? Is that unfettered capitalism, or more Communist bullshit regulation? Regards, Walter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

How many people has this Thompson bus run OVER ?. I looked back at all the posts . Did I start this? I think I did. Holy {21 Overstamp} Batman! Beat me up; hang me at high noon; drop my C DRUM. Let's see if we can get over it . Please let's end this madness. It's obvious that we all have mixed feelings over the spare parts' box issue. We are all Thompson collectors. or most of us are, and. when issues arise, it is good to see how people feel about new things that happen in our hobby. This issue has put to many people at one another's throat. If I started this, I'm truly sorry . I will put a $50 doller bill on the bar at Applebee's for Thompson beer on Thursday evening in Virginia. It's across the street from the Comfort Inn. See you there so we can air this issue out face to face (no firearms, please).

 

Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Fellow TSMG affectionados,

 

After reading all of the posts and seeing the pictures, I've decided that I've got to get one of these GH reproduction spare parts boxes. I think Gordon did an excellent job and showed remarkable wisdom in not marking the boxes. I say, well done, Gordon, my check is in the mail.

 

Thanks! Mark

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure there will be a few unscrupulous individuals who will attempt to pass off Gordon's Box as an original. Those same types were doing so long before Gordon had introduced his. There was an alleged individual down in Texas I believe, who was selling Bogus Boxes at one time, and filling them up with the proper original contents. But the fact is, the Originals Boxes are so incredibly rare and costly, that anyone who seriously considers purchasing an Original Box, should do his/her homework before making such an expenditure.

 

John Jr. mentioned the Colt style Barrels produced by Doug Richardson. Could someone pass of an aged DR '21A Barrel as an authentic one? Maybe, and perhaps it has happened to an unsuspecting buyer at one time. In all hobbies this kind of thing happens. There is no stopping it, and nothing can be done about it, except for exposing the fraud and alerting others when it occurs.

 

A Mark in some way will not stop an individual who wants to profit from selling a Fake. If Gordon had marked his box, one who is determined enough could easily weld up the mark, refinish, and then age the box appropriately to appear like an original. Same holds true to any good Reproduced Thompson item. Marked or unmarked. There are ways around almost anything, as everyone is aware.

 

I don't blame Gordon from not marking his Boxes (IF indeed that is the case). It wouldn't have deterred anyone who is going to pass one off as an original. So why not have a perfect, or near perfect reproduction? If an item can be faked either way, what difference would it have made? And the majority of these boxes aren't going to be marketed as originals. They will become collectible in their own right, thus escalating in value.

 

It's like the old Forum Debate on what constitutes an original Thompson. Some contend if the Gun wasn't manufactured by Colt, it's a replica. Does this mean everyone who doesn't own a Colt should stamp replica on their Non-Colt Thompsons? Of course not. But there are those who actually believe this.

 

No matter what Hobby a person is in too, there are going to be Fakes, and the Sleaze selling Fakes. Do the Boxes that Gordon produced make it all that easier in our hobby? No. If a person is determined to rip another off with a forgery, it will happen. And having a Mark or no Mark wouldn't have changed anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lionhart is going through an identity crisis; his avatar keeps changing. It was Nick N. now Jeremy Brett. I guess he's thinking outside the box.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Arthur!

 

No acquired taste for Colts here. For me, it was love at first feel. I'm a Colt collector going way back. Was just funnin' with John. Miracle Whip?!?! Plegh!!! No self respecting tuna eater uses Miracle Whip. Thas nassy. Rut roh, did I just start another debate? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

W&F,

Hold the mayo!

 

Devlin,

Replica TSMG's are already marked by the name of the manufacturer so there is no need to stamp "replica" on them. D.R. should have stamped his barrels even though they are not that difficult to differentiate from the originals. But your proclimation that, "having a Mark or no Mark wouldn't have changed anything," is not true at all. First, if it did have a mark that would then require some overt action (however minor or involved the subterfuge required), on the part of the next seller to pass it off as original. Second, if it did have a mark you, as you stated earlier, would never have purchased one (two). If you discovered a mark would you want a refund? There is a difference betwen a replica and a forgery. Hey, GH is one of the few lonely voices who dares distinguish between TSMG's up until 1944 and those that came afterward. So I am hardley a critic of GH, but even if a nefarious buyer of his box later sells it as original, GH becomes an "enabler." Even if an erasure of a mark was infinitely easy, that tiny extra additional signature would go a long way to ensure harmony for all concerned in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arthur, in looking over my Box, I see no mark anywhere on the Box itself. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't one present. I also believe that having a mark or no mark wouldn't have deterred an unsavory person or persons from passing one of Gordon's boxes off as the genuine article to the unwary. I stated that if a mark had been applied, I wouldn't have made my purchase from Gordon. In light of the latest developments posted earlier today by Murray, it sounds as if there is an identifying mark somewhere on the box, but at least not an intrusive one, which wouldn't prevent me from making another purchase. Arthur, you stated the following previosely on this subject, "If you have his box and realize the differences but prefer to remain mute is one thing. It is an entirely different matter to advise others to also keep the secret like it was "Operation Overlord." This type of censorship appears counter productive for a TSMG info board." I agree with your statement, and if there are differences, prey tell, what are they? Unfortunately I'm without an original box to make the necessary analysis to adequately compare the two.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe this little tin box should be known as "Pandora's Box!" http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PhilOhio, I agree with you 100%, criminals are criminals, bad guys are bad guys, and crooks are crooks, period! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif The liberals never fail to amaze and amuse me with their creative blame shifting, situational ethics, and social engineering attempts. For example, according to most liberals, "only white people can be racists." http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif What a laugh!!! They must be forgetting about the Japanese scientists experimenting on captured American soldiers (overwhelmingly Caucasian) during WWII, and the fact that blacks were slaveholders of other blacks, long before any European ships ever visited Africa (and blacks in Africa continue to be slaveholders of other blacks to this very day, in their benighted cultures). They must also be ignorant of the facts concerning black slaveholders in the U.S.A., prior to the ending of the American Civil War. These Black slaveholders owned both fellow blacks and whites. If anyone doesn't believe this, you are ignorant of American history and need to start reading, which most modern Americans are loath to do. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Regards, Walter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you afraid of the truth, Sig? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif If not, I suggest you start reading American history, particularly primary sources, to find some answers. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Best Regards, Walter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Walter not sure how you got I am afraid of the truth about something.

Just pointing out the topic has nothing to do with more recent posts.

The original topic was GH's spare parts boxes or did we all forget that?

Or maybe I missed reading one of the posts?

I will shut up now since I seem unworthy of being in this particular discussion as I can not make sense of how a spare parts box has anything to do with a discussion on crime in our nations capital.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sig, I think that I was just pointing out that the same type of liberals who want to take our Second Amendment rights away, are also responsible for calling everyone who is a white, male, Christian, heterosexual, conservative a racist. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Phil was, if I may be so bold, stating that these same liberal/ left wing Democrats are responsible for the crime waves in our large cities, by disarming decent, honest, law-abiding citizens, while excusing criminal behavior (even to the point of blaming the victims)!!! I happen to agree with Phil. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif Regards, Walter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parts box arrived - its great, as expected. I am going to order a 2nd one for another cased set. Gordon advised he is going to offer the pull thru brush etc:

Well worth the money...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read all this thread, but it brings to mind a conversation I had with a classic Corvette dealer about 1988, when Corvettes got real expensive.

 

Did you know that there are currently more 1967 427/425 original Corvettes in existance than GM ever produced?

 

The fakes were SO good, with the firewall plate, and protectoplate and other crap that a true original couldn't be distinguished from the fake? He had a dozen or more (possibly) original 427 Corvettes in inventory, and he couldn't sell them for what he had in them due to the counterfiet 'vettes becoming a problem with authenticity

 

That caused a massive price meltdown, as the purists who wanted an original 427 Corvette, didn't know if it was or not.

 

When prices got high enuf, there was a profit motive to turn a 327/300 Corvette Stingray into a 427/425 original.

 

In reality, is an indistinguishable fake any differnt than a true original? They look, perform and feel the same, but emotionally, if you want Original, it isn't the same.

 

Hmmm, this sounds like a good thesis for some Psych major working on his PhD, about the emotional involvement with inanimate objects, and their originally with respect to emotional satisfaction and life fullfilment issues....

 

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Norm @ May 31 2004, 05:10 AM)
Maybe this little tin box should be known as "Pandora's Box!"  http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif

I have sat here and read this entire thread. I have no opinion one way or the other on the spare parts box question. But man, there sure are some people here with 'situational ethics'. I have seen examples of the attitude that "as long as they are the ones on the long end of the stick it's O.K." but this one takes the cake!. One thing is for sure: all of you guys who own these 'replica' spare parts boxes and think that they do not diminish the originals should never say another word about 'West Hurley Thompsons' not being real Thompsons.

Glass houses and all that............

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jun 3 2004, 07:24 AM)


But no matter how long we muse about the interesting aspects of such entertaining diversions, the concept of integrity and personal honesty is such a nice, clean, crystal clear, uncomplicated concept to consider. It's an anchor, or should be. It is so easily understood...at least by those who choose to do so, and don't delude themselves...and it just stands out there all alone, towering above the B.S. and double-talk...a hitching post in a rising sea of horse doo-doo...maybe caused by global warming or something. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

As they say, by the time a counterfeit gets to its third owner, it is original. The first seller knows it is fake/counterfeit, the second guy has a pretty good idea, and the third guy convinced himself it is the real McCoy.

 

The fourth owner just bought a genuine, original item. The dishonesty was practiced by one, two and three to varying degrees, the fourth person may unknowingly have a fake, but he isn't dishonest.

 

If something is pawned off as original that isn't, that is unethical. If nobody can tell the difference, and nobody knows the history of an item , everything is supect, authentic or not. personally, I see no diff between a 100% indistinguishable replica, and an original, as I don't buy stuff based on it's collectability/provenance, I buy stuff 'cuz I want it, and I found out stuff I want, tends to be the type of stuff that people replicate due to it's demand.

 

The more and more replica stuff of whatever is circulating, makes proving provenance more import. You can't just say "I bought it at a gun show 3 years ago", you need bills of sale, and copies of the bills of sale from previous owners to prove that what you have is the real McCoy.

 

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jun 3 2004, 09:11 PM)


All of which are reasons why I, like you, would never be getting into the area of collecting where I pay actual money for guns, accecssories, attributes, provenance which is easily faked or of questionable authenticity. It's all smoke and it ain't worth it.

BINGO!

 

I just ask myself: Self, will all this authenticity/originality/mine is better than yours, really matter in a 1000 years when all that iron has returned to the rust from whenst it was made and everybody that cared about stupid stuff like this has been dead for centuries?

 

I keep getting the answer, "no" back. :-)

 

Enjoy, but do not covet, it is a waste of time.

 

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...