Need M16 Expert

[sc269]

Guys, I'm sure this not the appropriate section. However, a member suggested I start here. Will the Administrator please move me to the correct location? I apologize for my ignorance. I don't won't the advice from AR15.com because they are not are nice you fellows. I'm reluctantly going to sell a Colt M16 from collection. Building a retirement for myself, so sacrifices have to e made.

Enough of that. I have a pre 1986 M16 A1 . Somehow I ended up finding 2 Triangle uppers. One original and one that was produced on an AR-15. How do I tell which is which. The lower serial number is 907XXXX. That would make 9 million. I can't find supporting evidence from the internet that that should be even be A1. But it is. And fully transferable. So it must pre-date 1986. Please, someone direct me to the resident expert.

Before a flurry of questions about price. I am starting at 20K. Which would include, installed 10.5" barrel and magpul collapsable stock. And of course the original upper and stock. One BCG. Thanks fo rany help.

[Robert Henley]

We discuss M16's some over in the Class III area.

 

I'm sure the administrator will address when he sees your post.

 

Additional Board rules that may interest you found at this location: http://www.machinegunboards.com/

[Merry Ploughboy]

While the ARFCOM General Discussion forum is pretty "wild", in the Armory Section, the M16 specific forum is usually well mannered. On the other hand, ARFCOM Moderators are quick to react in a very negative manner to any talk of selling something in the technical forums. So as long as you just ask about identifying which upper is which, you should be okay there.

 

FWIW, most M16A1s in civilian hands appear to be in the 9 million serial number range. There are probably over 20,000 of them in the BATFE transferable machine gun registry.

 

In any case, sorry that you are selling the M16A1, and best of luck with your future.

[huggytree]

as for your price...you will sell it in 30 minutes at $20,000...i recommend you look at sold GB auctions and Sturm for pricing....im assuming its in nice condition

 

might want to put it together in its original configuration and sell the extra upper by itself or as an extra.....i think most people would want it looking correct when its for sale to get top dollar...and i often see extra's not adding the correct value they should......some people do, some dont...

 

good luck!

[johnsonlmg41]

the key to the pricing is how the receiver is marked. Is it marked M16A1 or just M16, or ? Correct uppers can add value, but not as much as the receiver markings since you can most always find a "correct" upper for it should the need arise. Some guys like to have the original upper, but rarely would you shoot it that way. Often it's difficult to determine what upper it was sent out with from Colt.

 

In theory the AR-15 upper would have likely had a semi auto bolt carrier in it, but the odds of getting switched out at some point are pretty high. HTH

[huggytree]

most would be more attracted to the 20" barrel and large stock....not a modern 10" barrel and M4 tube w/magpul stock..........not saying 90% wouldnt turn around and put the 10" barrel on it once they owned it....

 

just like selling a car....do you want to buy a Mustang that has all these after market parts or a 100% factory car that appears no one has messed with it.....most car guys i know bring the car back to stock before selling so you dont know it was drag raced + those drag racing parts bring more if sold separately...guns and cars arent the same, but im just making a point

 

 

i would pay more for a factory original look

 

and he may get $25k+ too if it looks nice

 

if it says Colt and M16 it will command $24-26k

 

if the final price is $20k i may buy it

Edited April 24, 2017 by huggytree

[Speeddemon02]

Pictures would be nice and possibly easier for us to help tell you. Can you look at the bottom of the two uppers toward the rear below where the charging handle would be and see if the cut outs are the same? Have you looked at what is stamped on each barrel as well to see if there are any ways of telling which might be which, there is a chance that they were built the same? 20k is fairly low if it is transferable. I'd love to get an M16, but do not want a fellow member to not get close to the full amount the item's worth more.

[johnsonlmg41]

I can tell if a car was raced mostly by the owner and their lifestyle....without even looking at the car. Sort of like machineguns..... the last gun you want to buy is one from a younger guy that only has 2or 3, since you know they've all hammered on, messed with, and based on lifestyle maybe not maintained vs. buying them from a doctor, with 30 guns and no time to shoot them and they are all nice, or possibly from an online auction which can be a dumping ground for messed up stuff.....with poor photos. While shocking to many, I still buy guns sight unseen because if you know the people, the gun is the easy part. Everything I buy at auction I assume is messed up or junk, occasionally some of the stuff actually works?

 

Course back to the colt, for hundreds of $ it can be put back to "factory", unless it's an early ar-15 where parts are scarce and pricey. Older fixed handle uppers are laying all over the place for cheap. I think there are probably 5-7 laying here and 3 lmg upper kits complete, 2 unfired. They may seem scarce but that's mostly because they are not worth the time to sell them, so you don't see a lot for sale. Couple years back M16a1 complete kits, thousands of them, were less than 300 including the butt stocks.

 

I see M16 marked 20-23K, A1's a little more, A2's lots more.....because some people think they are more collectible? Thanks, to the free market, I buy conversions at half price or less.....and they shoot just as well.

[sc269]

the key to the pricing is how the receiver is marked. Is it marked M16A1 or just M16, or ? Correct uppers can add value, but not as much as the receiver markings since you can most always find a "correct" upper for it should the need arise. Some guys like to have the original upper, but rarely would you shoot it that way. Often it's difficult to determine what upper it was sent out with from Colt.

 

In theory the AR-15 upper would have likely had a semi auto bolt carrier in it, but the odds of getting switched out at some point are pretty high. HTH

It is just marked M16 not M16A1. Would that be good or bad? Also. I must let the 10.5 barrel go since I won't have another that is MG or SBR.

[sc269]

Thanks guys, for the info. This forum is so much more cordial than the other sites.

[sc269]

Can an Administrator or knowledgeable member direct to me to the correct section for sale?

[MG08]

There are several sources for "born on dates" based on SN. If you want to PM me the Serial, I will try to find that info for you. Markings will be critical for "purists" - is it marked AR-15 and then model is M16 ? On pricing I would do as suggested above and do some market research before you sell- My perception is that M16 pricing is a bit higher than the $20-24K range. Depends again on markings, what it has with it and condition as usual.....

[Speeddemon02]

If it is marked just M16 and no A1 then the upper back in the day would have no forward assist if that helps

[Robert Henley]

Can an Administrator or knowledgeable member direct to me to the correct section for sale?

 

See my original post above with the following link for sale rules:

 

Additional Board rules that may interest you found at this location: http://www.machinegunboards.com/

[geefal]

I see M16 marked 20-23K, A1's a little more, A2's lots more.....because some people think they are more collectible? Thanks, to the free market, I buy conversions at half price or less.....and they shoot just as well.

so please show me where you are picking up these $10,000 conversions as I would like one also please.....

[sc269]

I have to get some pictures on the board for us to decipher this one. I know that M16 should mean slab side. It came with a forward assist upper. Which would mean A1 or A2. What puzzles me is that the stamp only says Colt M16. No suffix. With a fenced mag release. So it is highly likely there is a mixture of parts here.

[wwiifirearms]

 

I have to get some pictures on the board for us to decipher this one. I know that M16 should mean slab side. It came with a forward assist upper. Which would mean A1 or A2. What puzzles me is that the stamp only says Colt M16. No suffix. With a fenced mag release. So it is highly likely there is a mixture of parts here.

I'm not sure these assumptions are correct. I've been looking at an M16 I think is original with a fenced mag release and a forward assist. I'll post pics

[Speeddemon02]

all M16s had fencing, some of the earlier 600 series' had that feature, the receiver that could not be used for the military were sold off as civilian versions. Yes, pictures would be great to see even if it is of the lower only. The only differences between the M16 and A1 are all on the uppers

Edited April 29, 2017 by Speeddemon02

[wwiifirearms]

Note NOT the gun originally posted about, but one I thought was likely original. Opinions welcome.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss281/wwiifirearms/m16/4D9F905C-EE80-4E88-93B2-AA0EF928AD55.jpg

 

 

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss281/wwiifirearms/m16/516E5E5B-1EA9-4C0C-B54D-D582B5B484DD.jpg

 

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss281/wwiifirearms/m16/C12DF3C0-AD52-485F-95F5-3E9695037EA1.jpg

Edited April 29, 2017 by wwiifirearms

[johnsonlmg41]

geefal,

half the price of A2's, sorry for the confusion and lack of clarity. See the one on sturm for 17k asking last week, and another guy I know paid 16.5 last week for another. Sat at an auction 9 months ago and two "M16" marked colts hammered at 19K with BP separately. I know for sure one actually sold as I knew the buyer, the other I can't be sure. At 18 I was in, 19 not so much, nothing left for resale. I realize after watching the same ads month after months at 26-28K, one starts to believe this is the norm.....and for some it works out that way, but not everyone. Unknown sellers do not get top dollar and they are generally actually selling in a relatively short time frame vs. trolling the whole lake all summer looking for a specific fish, and if that fish isn't found over a summer, there's always ice fishing! HTH

[wwiifirearms]

Can an Administrator or knowledgeable member direct to me to the correct section for sale?

I the right place to list for sale is affiliated site http://www.sturmgewehr.com.

Well worth the very small cost to list an item.

[Speeddemon02]

Ive seen a couple for sale though none were colts, to me there is a huge difference between cast and forged receivers

[sc269]

Speeddemon, I tend to agree with your last post. As far as other posts on pricing, I have found that what you want, what people will pay, and what a gun is worth is all different. Especially, when you get into these over priced items. I say over priced, because we all have seen post sample prices vs transferable, To clear all this up. Please check back in Tuesday and should have the pictures up. I just don't have time right now working 14.5 Hour Days to do so. Thanks for all the help to everybody. See you Tuesday.

[sc269]

I know I looked for over 2 years before I bought. I never saw a transferable Colt for less than 18K. But then again,

[HB of CJ]

sc269, lots of good close up and far away pictures would greatly help us. Right now we do not have enough exact information to help. With pics we can nail it down. If you have a good forged, (not cast) full fence transferable M16 lower even in decent rebuild able shape you might be amazed how much it will sell for. Considering what just lowers are going for now, the rest of the rifle may be irrelevant. The new owner might build to suit based upon just the lower receiver.

 

You would be amazed. Peening, oversize parts and holes, Bondo and spray paint. Yep!

 

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

Edited April 30, 2017 by HB of CJ