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ATF Form 4 Processing


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#1 Tiz

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

Anyone know if the forms processing division of ATF is working during the partial government shut down?


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#2 snipershot1944

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:16 PM

It is reported over on the Subguns board that they are not working.

FWIW I'm waiting on a Form 4 myself. They reported a 7 month average turn time last time I called, which would have been December 15th.
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#3 huggytree

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:24 PM

reported shut down on form 4's

 

e-file being done when people there have spare time...i hear its limited....it happens 1 day and not another....so expect all transfers to halt pretty much

 

no poop clean up in national parks either

 

form 4's were climbing at a 45+ degree angle most likely thanks to silencer co summer special 10,000 free cans which = 20,000-25,000 extra sales......expect 8-10 months soon with govt shut down or not


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#4 Tman

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:32 PM

As a former employee, the folks at NFA will be working on a skeleton crew basis. Support for law enforcement (registry lookups) will continue as will forms processing for LE agencies. Limited dealer forms may be worked on, i.e. F3.
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#5 john

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:15 PM

Just cleared one October 31st and as they told me 7 months, it was 7 months to the day to approve it, then two days to mail it to the seller.
Honestly, my guess us that they are taking the time to the day.....anybody could estimate that close. I might Bet they have a huge stack approved just waiting in day 210 to roll around!
;)
So, anyone else have times that vary more than a couple days off of 7 months?
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#6 huggytree

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 11:02 PM

NFA tracker is showing the times going straight up.....so until it levels off who knows...could go to 12 months in 3-4 more months


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#7 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:17 AM

As a former employee, the folks at NFA will be working on a skeleton crew basis. Support for law enforcement (registry lookups) will continue as will forms processing for LE agencies. Limited dealer forms may be worked on, i.e. F3.

Just curious. Why does it take so long on a form 4? In my case the seller of the Thompson is a C&R holder I am a C&R and FFL holder (no longer and SOT). It has been north of 6 months since the paper work was submitted. Earlier in 2018, circa March, I had a form 4 clear in 4 months. Just wondering what the ATF goes through to approve a form 4 considering all the electronic resources now available to check back rounds and criminal history that would take so long.


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#8 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:12 PM

Forwarding a response from Jeff Folloder of NFATCA. 

 

This could be the perfect time to contact your representatives to have some additional money appropriated  to ATF for system improvements and personnel.

WRITE YOUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES NOW.

 

"At the moment, no Form 4's (or 1's) are being processed during the shutdown.  The volume has steadily increased over time and the NFA Division is dealing with a never ending *rise* in transaction volume.  Legislation/regulation mandates all of the background checks that must be completed for each application that is not SOT to SOT.  Those steps cannot be bypassed and there are no "speed passes" for previously approved applicants.  Sadly, Congress has steadfastly refused to grant budgets to upgrade the systems available to ATF and the FBI for these background checks.  The entire country can do electronic fingerprints, but not the ATF/FBI for NFA transfers."


PLEASE yell at your CongressCritters!
 

Jeff Folloder
Executive Director
Phone:       281.492.8288
Website:     www.nfatca.org
Forums:     www.nfatcaforums.org


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#9 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:00 PM

Some additional from Jeff at NFATCA.

 

"NFA Division has actually dramatically increased their efficiency and throughput over the years, especially in the last 4.  The log jam is always after ATF hands off to FBI for the background checks.  The forms processing system that they use is the same one that underpins the eForms system.  It's built on 80's technology and is held together with spit and a prayer.  They have to take it down every Wednesday just to keep it running for another 6 days.  None of their systems talk with each other and their is no way for ATF to currently handle electronic submission of fingerprints.  Congress flat out doesn't care to give them the budget to upgrade.


To be sure, we shouldn't have to go through any of this at all.  But, for now, we are stuck with the quivering pile of ancient wires, computers and paper records."


Edited by Tiz, 04 January 2019 - 02:01 PM.

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#10 snipershot1944

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:04 PM

I spoke with the NFA Branch this morning. A lady confirmed that they are shut down except for LE transfers, etc. I replied that I was sorry this was happening to the staff and their families. She chuckled and said I was the first to express anything but concern about their gun, and then she thanked me.

Today at lunch I visited my favorite LGS and one of the part time counter guys works for DHS and is still reporting for his shift, but not getting paid.
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#11 GaryKeim

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:23 PM

We may be waiting a while as Trump just stated that he's willing to let the shutdown go for years. This sucks... I've got 4 outstanding applications.


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#12 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:30 PM

Just cleared one October 31st and as they told me 7 months, it was 7 months to the day to approve it, then two days to mail it to the seller.
Honestly, my guess us that they are taking the time to the day.....anybody could estimate that close. I might Bet they have a huge stack approved just waiting in day 210 to roll around!
;)
So, anyone else have times that vary more than a couple days off of 7 months?

Per NFATCA the 210 day thing is total fiction.


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#13 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:33 PM

I spoke with the NFA Branch this morning. A lady confirmed that they are shut down except for LE transfers, etc. I replied that I was sorry this was happening to the staff and their families. She chuckled and said I was the first to express anything but concern about their gun, and then she thanked me.

Today at lunch I visited my favorite LGS and one of the part time counter guys works for DHS and is still reporting for his shift, but not getting paid.

I feel for them all as someone who has been there. I will say however that those required to work will get all there back pay and those laid off can receive unemployment compensation benefits.


Edited by Tiz, 04 January 2019 - 02:34 PM.

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#14 snipershot1944

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:03 PM

That is true. My DHS friend said some coworkers have cash reserves. Some don’t.
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#15 john

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:28 PM

Tiz, just fyi and for others,
I'm just telling the board what I experienced.

I have a receipt from the 2nd of April 2018 as the date my F4 was received and was told it cleared on the 31st of October - and the owner got it back and called me on November 2nd.

That's about as close to seven months as I can figure.

Just sayin'......

Edited by john, 04 January 2019 - 08:29 PM.

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#16 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:43 PM

Tiz, just fyi and for others,
I'm just telling the board what I experienced.

I have a receipt from the 2nd of April 2018 as the date my F4 was received and was told it cleared on the 31st of October - and the owner got it back and called me on November 2nd.

That's about as close to seven months as I can figure.

Just sayin'......

I understand what you are saying and how it must appear, however the NFATCA is the voice of the class III community, meets regularly with ATF officials, and has good rapport with the agency. I therefore tend to trust NFATCA when the tell me that ATF has no interest or policy in place to "sit on" processed forms waiting for 210 days to pass before mailing them. I just hope my outstanding from 4 clears in 7 months or less. 


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#17 john

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:47 PM

And to the other comment, i'll bite.

I'm a retired Fed (USPS Electronics Tech) and gotta say it sucked being forced in in holidays to fix and clean the machines so that folks who thought we Feddies had it made could get their junk mail the day after Christmas. We were considered essential and although we didn't get laid off, working for the Postal Circus really stunk at times....and the bennies are better in the real world, but once you figure that out you have too much time in to leave.

Just remember, we're people too and deserve all the same respect you do. Let's just get along and enjoy our hobby together, and leave the rhetoric aside....we get enough of that from Pelosi and Schumer!

Edited by john, 04 January 2019 - 08:51 PM.

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#18 Tiz

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:54 PM

That is true. My DHS friend said some coworkers have cash reserves. Some don’t.

I hope they all have some cash to fall back on at least till the unemployment benefits kick in. It is prudent advice to have a bit of reserve if possible, just for an event such as this If you are a government worker, state or federal. Budgets are passed every year and you never know if there will be a snag. I know some people live paycheck to paycheck, some cannot help that but some just live a little above their means or do not budget. These types of events should be a learning experience for those effected. When I was working, now retired, I got paid once a month, you learn to budget and save or else.


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#19 Got Uzi

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 03:44 AM

I feel for those who are effected by the shut down but it also shows that a handful of morons (535 if memory servers) who dont care about about anything but their own wallets and agendas, will screw everyone over.

On the flip side, this is complete BS that everything is at a stand still and no transfers are being worked on. Wouldnt this be a clue that the system needs updated and streamlined???

Oh I forgot Im from the Govt and Im here to help....
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#20 The Lone Ranger

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Posted 05 January 2019 - 06:53 AM

Currently 4 examiners are coming in.  I didn't ask about what they were doing but that's roughly 1/7 of the normal crew.  

 

Despite all the media and politician driven hype, no one has missed a pay yet although those whose normal schedule includes Saturdays were one day short on last week's pay (that comment is based on the premise of everyone in the effected agencies being on the same pay dates).  At this moment it *appears* that at least one of the effected components will process checks for the next pay date.  Some people have forfeited vacation time that was scheduled since during a "shutdown" all leave time is cancelled (the polar opposite of a shutdown).


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