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I love when seller descriptions try to make a bad thing sound good.


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Even with Ruben you have to be careful, I was bit by him when I bought a BAR a number of years ago. The BAR looked great in the photos but after receiving it I had to have the barrel replaced because some idiot reenactor had ruined the barrel firing hot blanks in it. BAR was unsafe to fire as it was received, replacement barrel and installation charge was close to $900.

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There is nothing in Ruben’s account that is not already known about the short barrelled Thimpson, and hasn’t already been posted here, so I don’t understand the basis for implying that he is trying to con buyers.

It is discouraging to me that posters are so quick to diss others without taking the time to research or understand the bigger picture.

 

RE: rosco turner: I work on many of Ruben’s vintage guns. He is not in the least schooled in gunsmithing and relies on gunsmiths to accurately correct any issues with guns offered berfore they are sold. I have also repaired a few guns sold by him that had issues even after being vetted by other gunsmiths. When I do this work, Ruben always pays for the repairs for the buyer. Did you work with Ruben and have him pay for the repairs of the BAR? It is not fair or helpful to complain about him without revealing if you followed up and gave him a chance to address your concerns and the problem.

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I wrote the description for this Thompson for Ruben. I believe it accurately portrays the weapon. Please tell me where you disagree with the description. It comes with two actuators, one original, and one repro. I shot it with the repro actuator, and there are videos of two different members shooting this TSMG on this website.

 

Here is what I wrote:

 

Offered for sale is an Auto-Ordnance Model of 1921 (AC) Thompson Submachine Gun, serial number 3971, which was manufactured by Colts Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company for Auto-Ordnance Corporation between 7/29/1921 and 8/27/1921. This is one of the original 15,000 Colt Thompsons, which range in serial number from 41 to 15040. Colt Thompsons were originally manufactured in 1921A configuration, without a compensator, and were marked Model of 1921. This one is marked in that manner, and had the option of a Cutts Compensator added, which makes it a 1921AC.

 

This is a very unique Colt Thompson. It has its beautiful, original finish, and an 8-inch barrel. A normal Thompson barrel length is 10.5 inches. To the knowledge of this writer, this is the only 8-inch barrel example that has been seen in the United States. This writer is aware of 3 others in the world, all of which are in Latin America, and appear the same as #3971. This particular Thompson was previously owned by the Columbus, Ohio Police Department, and was originally sold by famous Auto-Ordnance salesman E.E. Richardson on behalf of the Frank P. Hall Company to the Columbus, Ohio P.D.

 

Regarding the 8 barrel, it is possible that at some point in its life that the barrel could have had a squib load fired, and the barrel could have become bulged past its current 8 length, and was thereafter shortened to 8 inches. This is speculation, though, and there is no evidence of a squib. The barrel lines up on its index mark, and is an original Colt barrel. It could have been made this way by Colt, or modified by someone at Colt, Auto-Ordnance, or afterwards. We dont know for certain. The Thompson was registered in 1934, and a copy of the original paperwork is available to a potential buyer.

 

This was a police Thompson, though it appears to have had very little use. It has some freckling to the finish on its wrist, and various patina to its overall finish, but is definitely a higher condition Colt Thompson. The receiver and the lower frame serial numbers match. The buttstock has the correct anchor marking on its nose, indicating it was manufactured by Remington for Colt. The rear grip, and the vertical foregrip are also original. It features patent dates, as well as a JHB inspector marking on the right side of the receiver to indicate inspection for Auto-Ordnance by Chief Inspector John H. Barrett. It also features the desirable, early AUT-ORD-CO bullet logo on the top of the receiver, and has the first style of compensator. The weapon has a reproduction 1921 actuator installed in it currently, and also comes with its original 1921 actuator. In the video that accompanies this ad, the weapon was fired on 1/19/19 in Miami, FL by David Albert with the reproduction 1921 actuator installed.

 

This is an extraordinary example of a Police Department Colt Thompson, and it will stand out immediately in any Thompson collection. Other collectors will flock to it, based on its unique barrel length. Having been sold by E.E. Richardson makes its provenance even more interesting. Mr. Richardson was Auto-Ordnance' top salesman, and when Auto-Ordnance made the decision to only sell through Federal Laboratories in the early 1930s, he became a salesman for Fed Labs, selling Thompsons, and eventually Reising Submachine guns, among other law enforcement products. Much good historical information exists regarding E.E. Richardson, and can be read in William J. Helmers classic 1969 Thompson book, The Gun That Made the Twenties Roar, as well as Tracie L. Hills 2009 excellent work, The Ultimate Thompson Book.

 

This Colt Thompson served On The Side of Law and Order. With its buttstock removed, a 20-round magazine installed, and the 8-inch barrel, this would have been quite a compact bit of firepower in its heyday. It will be an exceptional addition to any collection today.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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the barrel could be a unique 1 off from AOC...not sure if there is record of any other like this?

 

or it could be making lemon-aid out of lemons...price wise for ruben i think he is pricing it accordingly as a less than collector gun

 

he typically is 15% higher than other dealers/retail and that would put this gun at $34,000 if sold by anyone else.....you wouldnt argue with it for $34k?

 

a perfect colt from Ruben would be $45k

 

without proof i dont believe any story.....unless you had an original form with barrel length from 1930 i would not believe the story. Did AOC do any other custom things? any history of them customizing a gun for someone?

 

i think its shorter looks is an improvement by 2019 standards, but judging on 1921 art deco the longer barrel looks more classic

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The gi modified actuator I installed into the gun was put in to keep some neophyte from ripping off a MAG not knowing the original actuator could be broken easily. We did that on purpose to protect the gun and the investor. The original is included.

 

Wasn't it reported somebody did that at the Thompson show this summer... Broke one of the "ears" off of a colt actuator.

 

With GI actuators still available.. and Colt actuators irreplaceable there's no reason to shoot one of the delicate ones.

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Good writeup Albert and also it is a modified barrel have not seen one record on paper of any 8 inch barrel.Or any special order even the Saudi order was nothing special or the France and Russian and German order.And those C drums are still sitting in the Ukraine well up to at least five years ago.but yeah it could have been a one off made for somebody or cut and modified.not any catalog item for sure.Like the super duper 38 Super Thompson somebody wanted in 1935.

 

Seems like a nice gun at a fair price considering today's prices.And the new owner will want to slap a Correct Colt barrel on it as soon as it is his.

Or maybe we are now into KRINK COLT 21'S,everybody have a good week.Ron

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Hmmmm.....my newest gun came with a slightly ringed barrel as well as a new replacement GI barrel.

Wonder if after cutting, the best way to add an adaptor sleeve on the muzzle to obtain the proper diameter to accept the comp.....silver solder an adaptor on, weld or double threaded sleeve?

Just thinking out loud.

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John, the early Cutts comps were small enough thread dia. (.660" IIRC) to be cut without adding a metal adapter.

 

Do we have any close ups of the comp / barrel interface on this gun?

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RE: rosco turner: I work on many of Ruben’s vintage guns. He is not in the least schooled in gunsmithing and relies on gunsmiths to accurately correct any issues with guns offered berfore they are sold. I have also repaired a few guns sold by him that had issues even after being vetted by other gunsmiths. When I do this work, Ruben always pays for the repairs for the buyer. Did you work with Ruben and have him pay for the repairs of the BAR? It is not fair or helpful to complain about him without revealing if you followed up and gave him a chance to address your concerns and the problem.

 

When I called after receiving the BAR he didn't seem very happy about the situation but finally agreed to pay half the cost of the repair. The barrel was threaded on the inside for a blank adapter which was a very obvious flaw, the throat erosion I could see him overlooking but he had been specifically asked before I bought the rifle what was the condition of the barrel and I was told excellent. The rifle along with a NOS GI barrel that I hunted down and purchased was sent to OOW where they installed the barrel and tested the rifle before returning it. When it was all said and done he sent me a check for 50% of the cost of the barrel and installation.

 

As good of a reputation as Ruben has as the buyer you still have to be careful with any purchase which was my original point.

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Sorry I meant, does Ruben himself shoot the guns in his inventory? I thought Deerslyers head to head was very nice.

ppgcowboy,

 

Just to be clear, Dan mentions in the video that the guns belong to Ruben Mendiola. Dan can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Dan does function tests on Ruben's firearms for him and troubleshoots the guns. There is also a video of Dan shooting the 8" barrel gun that was the topic of this thread.

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Understood. I was just curious as to how active he is himself in hands on functionality of his inventory, or does he go stricktly go by a range report from gunsmiths. A few who are board members and I personally would consider to be very reputable.
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i bought a M1A......AOC....from Ruben about six years ago and I am very pleased with the transaction. After several telephone conversations he discounted the gun to 15K (he wanted $17250) and it is very good. Excellent packaging and great pictures.I would not hesitate to buy from him again .

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i bought a M1A......AOC....from Ruben about six years ago and I am very pleased with the transaction. After several telephone conversations he discounted the gun to 15K (he wanted $17250) and it is very good. Excellent packaging and great pictures.I would not hesitate to buy from him again .

I didnt realize Ruben discounted anything off his listed prices. Good to know

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i bought a M1A......AOC....from Ruben about six years ago and I am very pleased with the transaction. After several telephone conversations he discounted the gun to 15K (he wanted $17250) and it is very good. Excellent packaging and great pictures.I would not hesitate to buy from him again .

I didnt realize Ruben discounted anything off his listed prices. Good to know

He doesn't. Unless you call $500 on a $55,000 gun (and I bought a few) a discount. Mine are more recent than 6 years ago.

I am a good haggler and couldn't get anything more that $500

Eric

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