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Another Richard W. Urich 3 Digit M1 TSMG

Numrich/Trask/Kahr & Urich

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#41 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 07:49 PM

   Back prior to the 1986 ban I advertised my guns as "M1A1 Thompson Submachine Guns"

and was promptly threatened by Auto-Ordnance West Hurley with all sorts of legal action

because they claimed to be the original owner of the trademark, etc.

  

Bob

  

Wonder how far Trast's AOC was prepared to go in spending resources in a court battle.   Was it a letter like Opie Taylor got from "The  'Miracle Salve Company" or did you get the impression they would have made an example of you to discourage other Class 2 SOT businesses? 


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#42 Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:31 AM

Hi all. I need some advice.  I sold my 3 digit Urich mentioned in this thread.  I had ran a couple mags through it flawlessly.  The buyer's FFL received it yesterday.  He stated that it will run if a magazine is downloaded to about 15 rounds on the 30 rnd mag and on the 20 round about 10 rounds.  With a fully loaded mag, the bolt pushes a round out of the magazine but at an angle and the bolt stops.  I find it odd that both magazines would be bad.  He told me he ran four different makes of ammo through it.  When I shot this gun, I can't really recall if I shot it with a fully loaded mag or not and only ran a couple mags through it.  Could the failure to push a round into the chamber be caused by a weak mainspring? I did disassemble the gun prior to shipping with the upper and lower separated.  Anyone have any suggestions on what could cause it to not run with a fully loaded magazine?  Thanks in advance.


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#43 anjong-ni

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:49 PM

Others here have mentioned that "weak ammo" will do this...Essentially not cycle the bolt...          Phil


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#44 reconbob

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:02 AM

This could be a variety of things and unfortunately you are not there to get
a first hand look. What does it mean that the cartridge comes out at an angle and
the bolt stops? That the cartridge jumps free and is at enough of an angle that it
is jammed sideways against the face of the bolt kind of like a stove pipe jam?

It could be-

The feed lips of the magazine are ever so slightly nicked or dented
causing friction. The more rounds in the mag the greater the spring force the
greater the friction. When there are fewer rounds in the mag, less friction and
the gun works.

The mags could be loose in an up/down direction. Use duct or masking tape
to tape the mag tight up against the receiver. If this fixes the problem it's the mag.

The shooter could be slowly squeeezing the trigger causing the sear to drag
on the bottom of the bolt slowing down the bolt, as opposed to decisively pulling
the trigger and dropping the sear all the way.

If it's more than the top round in the mag the gun may be short recoiling. The
bolt recoils far enough to eject the case but not far enough to pick up the rim of the
next round and the front
end of the bolt scrapes against the side of the next round pushing it out of the mag
where it jumps free of the feed lips and jams the bolt.

Short recoil could be the ammo, the trigger pull, or a shot out barrel.

To check for proper power fire the gun on semi and the bolt should
lock to the rear on the rear sear notch every time. If not the gun is short
recoiling due to not enough power.


Bob

Edited by reconbob, 14 February 2020 - 12:13 AM.

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#45 Rebel Rifle Ordnance LLC

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 08:47 AM

This could be a variety of things and unfortunately you are not there to get
a first hand look. What does it mean that the cartridge comes out at an angle and
the bolt stops? That the cartridge jumps free and is at enough of an angle that it
is jammed sideways against the face of the bolt kind of like a stove pipe jam?

It could be-

The feed lips of the magazine are ever so slightly nicked or dented
causing friction. The more rounds in the mag the greater the spring force the
greater the friction. When there are fewer rounds in the mag, less friction and
the gun works.

The mags could be loose in an up/down direction. Use duct or masking tape
to tape the mag tight up against the receiver. If this fixes the problem it's the mag.

The shooter could be slowly squeeezing the trigger causing the sear to drag
on the bottom of the bolt slowing down the bolt, as opposed to decisively pulling
the trigger and dropping the sear all the way.

If it's more than the top round in the mag the gun may be short recoiling. The
bolt recoils far enough to eject the case but not far enough to pick up the rim of the
next round and the front
end of the bolt scrapes against the side of the next round pushing it out of the mag
where it jumps free of the feed lips and jams the bolt.

Short recoil could be the ammo, the trigger pull, or a shot out barrel.

To check for proper power fire the gun on semi and the bolt should
lock to the rear on the rear sear notch every time. If not the gun is short
recoiling due to not enough power.


Bob

 

Turns out the issue was a weak / kinked main spring.  Replaced it and it runs flawlessly.  The saga on this gun continues.  I sold it to a very happy and satisfied customer but his wife wasn't so happy.  I'm now in possession of S/N 823 once again and it's available for sale.  I'd love to keep it but I just need to continue to thin the heard.


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#46 TD.

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 09:28 AM

It appears Ulrich NO. 824 will be one of the Class 3 items at the May 28, 2020 Morphy's auction.

 

Attached File  FLIPDOC May Firearms 75.pdf   123.75K   21 downloads


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#47 MG08

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 09:22 AM

This could be a variety of things and unfortunately you are not there to get
a first hand look. What does it mean that the cartridge comes out at an angle and
the bolt stops? That the cartridge jumps free and is at enough of an angle that it
is jammed sideways against the face of the bolt kind of like a stove pipe jam?

It could be-

The feed lips of the magazine are ever so slightly nicked or dented
causing friction. The more rounds in the mag the greater the spring force the
greater the friction. When there are fewer rounds in the mag, less friction and
the gun works.

The mags could be loose in an up/down direction. Use duct or masking tape
to tape the mag tight up against the receiver. If this fixes the problem it's the mag.

The shooter could be slowly squeeezing the trigger causing the sear to drag
on the bottom of the bolt slowing down the bolt, as opposed to decisively pulling
the trigger and dropping the sear all the way.

If it's more than the top round in the mag the gun may be short recoiling. The
bolt recoils far enough to eject the case but not far enough to pick up the rim of the
next round and the front
end of the bolt scrapes against the side of the next round pushing it out of the mag
where it jumps free of the feed lips and jams the bolt.

Short recoil could be the ammo, the trigger pull, or a shot out barrel.

To check for proper power fire the gun on semi and the bolt should
lock to the rear on the rear sear notch every time. If not the gun is short
recoiling due to not enough power.


Bob

 

Turns out the issue was a weak / kinked main spring.  Replaced it and it runs flawlessly.  The saga on this gun continues.  I sold it to a very happy and satisfied customer but his wife wasn't so happy.  I'm now in possession of S/N 823 once again and it's available for sale.  I'd love to keep it but I just need to continue to thin the heard.


Since you have it back- can you post some clear pics of the markings and of the gun ?  Most of the pics earlier in the string are unviewable ( at least to me). Absent original photos from the Mfg, or some one popping up to say they rollmarked the receivers, There is probably no way to really know how these got marked.  The question of "new" vs reweld receiver should be fairly easy to answer. an inspection of the receiver should show reweld indicators.  No question in my mind these are well made guns.   Heck I have a post sample M1A1 welded back together from a kit that is not pretty , but runs without a hiccup. The Urich Thompsons are nice guns from what I have seen.


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#48 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 11:39 AM

Morphy Auction ad says: "Current registration form indicates manufacturer in block 4a is "R. W. URICH".

But at the top it says: "Robert Urich assembled and registered Auto Ordinance Bridgeport address marked Thompson"

 

 Welded together AOC receiver? Urich made receiver with AOC markings?

 

Attached File  006.JPG   50.35K   17 downloadsAttached File  008.JPG   38.38K   17 downloadsAttached File  004.JPG   80.84K   14 downloads

Attached Files

  • Attached File  002.JPG   83.48K   10 downloads

Edited by Arthur Fliegenheimer, 19 April 2020 - 12:39 PM.

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#49 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 12:26 PM

That Urich #824 has a pretty sharp 90 degree corner on the magazine opening when compared compared to a Savage plant M1A1 Thompson receiver. 


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#50 mohawk64

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 01:14 PM

I'm sure it is high quality.
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