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Would anyone know the production years (start/end) of these tear gas guns? Many thanks!

 

Cheers

 

HANS

 

Hans,

 

Hopefully someone here will be able to answer your question. I looked in 3 different books that I thought might have the answer, and came up with no specific details. I can say that Swearengen's 1966 tear gas book did not mention that model. I can't find it listed in the Blue Book of Gun Values. The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson shows the gun, and has some details about where it was manufactured, but does not list the dates.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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I looked in 3 different books that I thought might have the answer, and came up with no specific details. I can say that Swearengen's 1966 tear gas book did not mention that model. I can't find it listed in the Blue Book of Gun Values. The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson shows the gun, and has some details about where it was manufactured, but does not list the dates.

 

Many thanks! Swearengen was my first reference as well, but it must post-date the book. I found some specs in Huon's UN SIECLE D'ARMEMENT MONDIAL, but no dates. I also mailed S&W, but they hadn't even heard of it ;) Judging from internet auctions, it is fairly common, so it is odd that nobody seems to know anything about it . . .

 

Cheers

 

HANS

 

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Many thanks! Swearengen was my first reference as well, but it must post-date the book. I found some specs in Huon's UN SIECLE D'ARMEMENT MONDIAL, but no dates. I also mailed S&W, but they hadn't even heard of it ;) Judging from internet auctions, it is fairly common, so it is odd that nobody seems to know anything about it . . .

 

Cheers

 

HANS

 

Hans,

 

That's interesting that S&W hadn't heard of it. The S&W book indicates it was manufactured by the Smith and Wesson Chemical Company in Rock Creek, Ohio. I read on a bit, and may have found another clue as to the date of manufacture...the book indicates that about the same time S&W purchased Alcan to manufacture ammunition, they also purchased Lake Erie Chemical Company, which is to whom, I assume the S&W Chemical Company name was applied. I'll see if I can find out what year they purchase Alcan, and that may narrow down the date range a bit more.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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Hi David and Hans

The S&W tear gas rep gave me his original brochures. He stayed in the business but changed companies. I am not sure of the initial date but will check. I might not have every year but will look and also give him a call. He knows almost everything about tear gas. Give me a few weeks. There were boxes of stuff and I am pretty busy right now.

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Hi David and Hans

The S&W tear gas rep gave me his original brochures. He stayed in the business but changed companies. I am not sure of the initial date but will check. I might not have every year but will look and also give him a call. He knows almost everything about tear gas. Give me a few weeks. There were boxes of stuff and I am pretty busy right now.

 

Oh, thanks, that would be awesome!

 

Cheers

 

HANS

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

[quote

Oh, thanks, that would be awesome!

Cheers

HANS

Hi Hans

 

Sorry for the delay. I have saved a lot of original material with the idea of a book one day. The literature is difficult to wade through as these were not made for the general public and often not dated. I found the LE advertisements but the newest one I can find right now is 1980 with the 209. In 1981 S&W still listed Federal Labs and AAI launchers and grenades. The 1982 dealer sheet only listed S&W. I'll ask my friend for exact dates. He has a photographic mind.

 

The S&W "Police Riot control and Training Manual" is not dated anywhere I can find. It does not have a copyright date in book.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_07321.JPG

 

Here is part of a training poster with reference for the 209/210 and the 276/277. Will keep diggin.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_07333.JPG

 

 

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What type of cartridge is used to fire the projectile on the S&W gas guns?

Thanks,

Darryl

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What type of cartridge is used to fire the projectile on the S&W gas guns?

Thanks,

Darryl

They are usually used to shoot a 37/38mm case with same size projectile like a big shotgun. If you are talking about the cup launcher for them they used a 37/38mm blank or a 12 gauge blank in an adapter. The S&W launcher can use most any grenade blank but the AAI MPG had to use a special blank made for them and without a wad. These launchers allowed the 37 and 38mm guns to have a bigger payload. They were not too common.

 

Here is something I posted on another forum with some pics of projectiles, cases and adapters.

 

 

 

 

Here is some more 37/38/1.5" with a few 40mm thrown in for reference. They span WWI to modern. It is not a collection just an accumulation. All are inert empty or fired except flares and blanks. Hope this helps. Ask you local police firearms examiners, EOD or the chemical training officers and they may be of help in determining what you need.

 

In a hurry description may not be in order.

 

40mm,

 

Last one a 37mm Arwen/Sage training round(a whole other story on 37/38s) This to honor our Brit cousins. It is a great gas gun. Wish we had one.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01977.JPG

 

 

1.56"/M8, these are the ones for your gun. Note the M74 is fired, these have a pretty big charge of flash powder, crush ignition and are dangerous.

WWI WWII VN, one is the front loader for the M8, hand held launcher and for the flare launcher for air fields.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01981.JPG

 

 

38 and 37mm Note some of the 37 mm are marked 37/38 by factory. The "38s" will not chamber in the 37mm Lake Erie guns but will in the Federal 37/38mm. Some "37mms" will shoot but the case will swell in 38mm guns.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01996.JPG

 

recent 37mm commercial flare(note too big for the Coston and Sedgley guns) 37/38mm launching blank for MPG grenade, 12 ga blank adapter for 37/38mm gun (some were adapted to launch gas grenades like the MPG and numerous others) 37/38 to 26mm adapter

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_02004.JPG[/

 

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What type of cartridge is used to fire the projectile on the S&W gas guns?

Thanks,

Darryl

They are usually used to shoot a 37/38mm case with same size projectile like a big shotgun. If you are talking about the cup launcher for them they used a 37/38mm blank or a 12 gauge blank in an adapter. The S&W launcher can use most any grenade blank but the AAI MPG had to use a special blank made for them and without a wad. These launchers allowed the 37 and 38mm guns to have a bigger payload. They were not too common.

 

Here is something I posted on another forum with some pics of projectiles, cases and adapters.

 

 

 

 

Here is some more 37/38/1.5" with a few 40mm thrown in for reference. They span WWI to modern. It is not a collection just an accumulation. All are inert empty or fired except flares and blanks. Hope this helps. Ask you local police firearms examiners, EOD or the chemical training officers and they may be of help in determining what you need.

 

In a hurry description may not be in order.

 

40mm,

 

Last one a 37mm Arwen/Sage training round(a whole other story on 37/38s) This to honor our Brit cousins. It is a great gas gun. Wish we had one.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01977.JPG

 

 

1.56"/M8, these are the ones for your gun. Note the M74 is fired, these have a pretty big charge of flash powder, crush ignition and are dangerous.

WWI WWII VN, one is the front loader for the M8, hand held launcher and for the flare launcher for air fields.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01981.JPG

 

 

38 and 37mm Note some of the 37 mm are marked 37/38 by factory. The "38s" will not chamber in the 37mm Lake Erie guns but will in the Federal 37/38mm. Some "37mms" will shoot but the case will swell in 38mm guns.

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_01996.JPG

 

recent 37mm commercial flare(note too big for the Coston and Sedgley guns) 37/38mm launching blank for MPG grenade, 12 ga blank adapter for 37/38mm gun (some were adapted to launch gas grenades like the MPG and numerous others) 37/38 to 26mm adapter

 

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_02004.JPG[/

 

 

 

Thanks for the photos, I guess the ammo that is commercially available is like a large shot shell with primer/powder and what ever.

What forums would you recommend to get up to speed on the 37mm guns?

I'd also be interested in any manuals or copies of manuals regarding the S&W 210/276 model.

Here's a couple of photos of it. It's a military model with a military cartouche on the butt stock.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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My neighbors have several firework shoots every year in there back yard.

There's always remnants of it in my yard and on my roof.

Do I have a surprise for them, maybe some smoke and bird bombs :-)

Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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[

 

 

Thanks for the photos, I guess the ammo that is commercially available is like a large shot shell with primer/powder and what ever.

What forums would you recommend to get up to speed on the 37mm guns?

I'd also be interested in any manuals or copies of manuals regarding the S&W 210/276 model.

Here's a couple of photos of it. It's a military model with a military cartouche on the butt stock.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

 

There are flares and smoke available as well as firework and bird bombs. Some are not legal in certain states. Be sure you check. If you have any ammo that is fired at a person then it becomes a DD so a tax stamp is required. ie no baton rounds etc.

 

I only shoot flares in the rain or snow. Not all the 37/38mm flare interchange. I could write 3-4 pages on this. Be sure you ask if they are for your gun. The S&W is a solid gun and will shoot most of the modern ones.

 

There is a forum, 37mm.com (I think) that has info. Careful with handloading if you try. I have loaded some experimental stuff in the past and they can be tricky. I have an original Federal Labs reloading kit for the training rounds and will try to get a pic one day. It has the decapper/seater, base, wads and premeasured powder in glass vials. Different kits for different projectiles.

 

I am not sure if the manual in the picture is what came with the gun or not. During a couple of S&W tours they said they gave me a copy of all the manuals. I never got one for a gas gun. I'll keep diggin.

 

Nice looking gun. You even have the car lock. I would like to see the US cartouche. I have not seen one marked.

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[

 

 

Thanks for the photos, I guess the ammo that is commercially available is like a large shot shell with primer/powder and what ever.

What forums would you recommend to get up to speed on the 37mm guns?

I'd also be interested in any manuals or copies of manuals regarding the S&W 210/276 model.

Here's a couple of photos of it. It's a military model with a military cartouche on the butt stock.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

 

There are flares and smoke available as well as firework and bird bombs. Some are not legal in certain states. Be sure you check. If you have any ammo that is fired at a person then it becomes a DD so a tax stamp is required. ie no baton rounds etc.

 

I only shoot flares in the rain or snow. Not all the 37/38mm flare interchange. I could write 3-4 pages on this. Be sure you ask if they are for your gun. The S&W is a solid gun and will shoot most of the modern ones.

 

There is a forum, 37mm.com (I think) that has info. Careful with handloading if you try. I have loaded some experimental stuff in the past and they can be tricky. I have an original Federal Labs reloading kit for the training rounds and will try to get a pic one day. It has the decapper/seater, base, wads and premeasured powder in glass vials. Different kits for different projectiles.

 

I am not sure if the manual in the picture is what came with the gun or not. During a couple of S&W tours they said they gave me a copy of all the manuals. I never got one for a gas gun. I'll keep diggin.

 

Nice looking gun. You even have the car lock. I would like to see the US cartouche. I have not seen one marked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a photo of the cartouche. I'm not sure what it is, I was told it was military of some type. The gun is in a

military dark green parkerizing.

-Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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bmarvin,

Yes it is, I know you can tell by the red back ground. I'm addicted to the dogs' auctions!

I've got an interest in next weeks auction, after that, I'm not looking anymore :-)-Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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bmarvin,

Yes it is, I know you can tell by the red back ground. I'm addicted to the dogs' auctions!

I've got an interest in next weeks auction, after that, I'm not looking anymore :-)-Darryl

 

Interesting cartouche. Looks like a DCM rebuild cartouche. ????? Where are the Garand collectors?

 

I have never seen a parkerized one. What is the provenance of this gun? Could the DCM have parked it?

 

Pardon my ignorance but who are Jack and the dogs?

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Here is an example of an original cartouche such as was used to mark the stock on the S&W Gas Gun. I have seen these markings on a couple of Reising Model 65 .22 rifle stocks, and I know I've seen them on other rifles, as well.

 

Cartouche.jpg

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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Here is an example of an original cartouche such as was used to mark the stock on the S&W Gas Gun. I have seen these markings on a couple of Reising Model 65 .22 rifle stocks, and I know I've seen them on other rifles, as well.

 

Cartouche.jpg

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

David,

Do you know what the stamp infers?

I'll have to check my CMP M1D to see if it has this stamp.

Thanks,

Darryl

 

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That's the 1950s era military acceptance stamp. It replaced all those various stamps you find on the WW2 guns like the Garand , carbine , 03s , etc. It was the final stamp placed on the gun at the factory to show that the govt. accepted it and it was now US property. You will find them on H&R , IH , and korean Springfield garands. You shouldn't see them on H&R model 65s , but maybe on thier MC-58s ?

Chris

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bmarvin,

Yes it is, I know you can tell by the red back ground. I'm addicted to the dogs' auctions!

I've got an interest in next weeks auction, after that, I'm not looking anymore :-)-Darryl

 

Interesting cartouche. Looks like a DCM rebuild cartouche. ????? Where are the Garand collectors?

 

I have never seen a parkerized one. What is the provenance of this gun? Could the DCM have parked it?

 

Pardon my ignorance but who are Jack and the dogs?

 

Jackthedog is one of the best sellers of C&R non NFA guns out there. He hangs out & Auction Arms.

-Darryl

 

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