Set Of 5 Wh Thompsons

[ClevelandShooter]

Being my first post on this board I'd like to say Hi to all.

I was reading Mr.Iannamico's article in SAR Vol.6 No3 on West Hurley Thompsons. I have seen a set of five posted on Bowers board. I do have the serial # and from the list accompaning Franks article they were made in 1977. So my question is does anyone know how many of these sets were made????

Thanks in advance for any information.

Bill

[full auto 45]

Bill, welcome to the board.

 

That set of 5 has been up for sale a few times if it is the same one I'm thinking of. And for way to much. To check out the WH serial numbers click on this link. And any questions check the FAQ section or feel free to ask away.

 

WH serial numbers linky

 

[ClevelandShooter]

Well, if way too much, What would you value them at???Once again I would like to know if anyone knows how many sets were made. 2 that I know of. They consisted of a auto .45 and .22 and a semi auto .45 ,.22 and a .45 pistol.

According to the records they were made in 1977. Yes, I bought them at an undisclosed price. I would like some provinance on them and would like to petion the BATFE to put the sets on the C&R list.

Bill

PS Thanks for the welcome

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

I think they were advertised for a year and a half at $30K and when that didn't work the guy re-listed it for $35K! They might be valued at $25K? What did you negotiate? I'm not sure about the relevance of a "provenance" for a set of replica Thompson's.

 

Good luck on petitioning ATF to get C&R status. Eric at Lakeside has been trying to get his remake of the C&R Tippman classified as C&R for years without any success.

[NotDeaf]

 

Hey Bill,

 

Welcome to the board, I take it by your board member name that your in Cleveland, which Cleveland, Ohio or Tennessee or wherever? The reason, I’m asking, I live in Cleveland Ohio.

 

Once again, welcome, I’m sure your find anything and everything on this board.

 

Randy

aka NotDeaf

 

[ClevelandShooter]

Thanks for the welcome and yes it is Cleveland Ohio. Eastside. LOL

Bill

[ClevelandShooter]

OK, Thanks for the warm welcome to the board. But my question still is "does anyone know how many West Hurley 5 gun sets were produced ?". Or if someone could give me a hint on where to look for this information????

Thanks again

Bill

[ClevelandShooter]

Phil, Thanks for your straight answer. I feel much as you do on these guns. And all I can say is that I was in the right place at the right time. I have emailed Kahr Arms and will keep the board informed as to any information that I get.

PS GO Buckeyes

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

QUOTE

And all I can say is that I was in the right place at the right time.

ClevelandShooter

 

Are we to interpret from this disclosure that serendipity played a part in the seller's (who, as reported by posters on Sturmgewehr and Subguns, didn't respond to any emails with any offer below his science fiction figure) moment of sanity at which he caved in and sold the set for under $25K?

 

As far as the serial numbers, I would hazard a guess that Numrich operated for a time in the same fashion that Dornaus & Dixon did with their Bren Ten's before they called it a day. Anyone could special order any serial number they wanted including consecutive and matching for the different configurations of their 10mm handguns.

 

I am sure that the former owner of this collection had the very same thought that you do now. But after nearly 30 years of hoping the coal would magically turn into diamonds, he was confronted with a market, fickle as it may be, that requires some legitimacy for the hefty price tag. Without any historical cache, or craftsmanship, or bona fide relationship to the production Thompson of 1921, there isn't a whole lot to recommend these firearms for current or future coveted status.

 

Even if your prognostication that these WH sets achieve the rare and desirable "collectability" status somewhere down the road may never materialize, you can take solace in the fact that Dalbert and PhilOhio shared your belief.

[ClevelandShooter]

Phil, I did contact Kahr and was redirected to a Mr. Tracie Hill. Mr. Hill was quite helpfull and as I get the 2 class 3 guns transfered in I will be getting all the information to him. I was happy to learn that we are fellow OGCA members and I will be joining the Thompson Collectors Assn.. My thanks to all that have been helpfull.

 

Arty, as for you your first post started off on the price of the guns. Not trying to answer my question at all.Your second reply once again focused on price, opinions on the seller and a smattering of your disdane for West Hurley guns. I surmise that you are a man with a great vocabulary, that is only matched by your ego. I purchased the set. I paid for them and I am happy with what I have. End Of story.

 

I bought this set to pass to my son. And with it all the information that I can get on them. As I have done with all guns in my collection. Wich until now are all shooters. I enjoy the sport of buying and shooting class 3 firearms. And 99% of the people that go with it. You seem to fall into that 1% catagory. So my question to you is, Do your lips get chapped from kissing the mirror??????

 

Bill OUT

[TD.]

Welcome to the board ClevelandShooter. I think you will enjoy being a member of the Thompson Collectors Association (TCA). I suggest you plan on attending the yearly TCA Show and Shoot held each year in August in Granville, OH. It will be time well spent and you will learn a lot of information concerning the Thompson - all makes and models. Your 5-gun set would make an excellent display and would garner a lot of interest. As others have stated, I doubt anyone knows for sure how many West Hurley 5-gun sets were produced. However, I believe most will attest that a collection like you have is not very common. The serial numbers certainly add some value to a collection of 5 guns. How much value is in the eyes of each individual collector. It appears you value this set and that is all that is important. Congratulations on your purchase.

 

Are you planning on shooting the full-auto Thompsons? I would not think the shooting of these two Thompsons would dramatically lower the value of this 5-gun set. I don't think they have to be regulated to "safe queen" status to retain collectability status – but that is just my opinion. I would encourage you to have fun with your new Thompsons before you pass them on to your son.

 

I have one other thing to say about serial numbers of full-auto West Hurley Thompsons; consecutive serial numbers were very common when dealers ordered more than one full-auto WH Thompson from Auto-Ordnance in West Hurley. I have spoke to several class three dealers who ordered 5 or more at one time and have been told it was the norm to get 5 or more consecutive serial numbers. You will see some consecutive serial numbered sets of West Hurley Thompsons advertised from time to time at very inflated prices. It is my opinion these sets should not be valued at a premium.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

ClevelandShooter,

 

Congratulations on your fortuitous discovery and purchase of the WH collection!

 

Even though you have been on this board for nearly a year I guess these "Welcomes!" are belated. Surely as a casual visitor to this board over the last year, you must have stumbled across the thread regarding this very same WH collection as it has been brought up several times.

 

But I am curious why you didn't say that you had already purchased these WH's in your initial post in the thread. It seemed as if you needed the number of WH sets information before committing to the purchase. Since this is not the case, the number of sets had nothing to do with your committing to the seller's price. The fact that nobody knows how many matching/consecutive WH serial numbers sets were produced might in itself be indicative of the insignificance of this information to collectors. However, I understand why you would want to get a definitive answer.

 

Thank you for elevating me into the 1%er club. I never criticized you or your purchase. Well, maybe the price, but that is something you wish to remain confidential. I did criticize your seeming posture that you alone were prescient enough to buy what many others new about but passed by. Only the passage of time will confirm which party was truly prescient.

 

But by that time your son, the ultimate beneficiary of your investment, will either be thankful that he kept the WH's virgin, or wonder why he never fired them all those years.

[Z3BigDaddy]

"I surmise that you are a man with a great vocabulary, that is only matched by your ego."

 

Wow it only took six post for you to figger out Arty? You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than what we have on this board.... Arty is just one part of it..... Welcome to the board and here is to a quick transfer! oorah.....

[ClevelandShooter]

TD, Thanks for the welcome and your post.

 

Z3, Thanks for the warm welcome.

I look forward to coming here for info on Thompson's and associated events

 

Bill Out

[SecondAmend]

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than what we have on this board..."

 

Hey, I resemble that remark! (quote from the Three Stooges)

[John Jr]

Yeah! Colt sucks.

 

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ClevelandShooter]

SecondAmend , Also remember what Curly said to the block of ice as he was shaving it????

 

 

" Are you married or happy" YUK YUK YUK

 

Bill Out

[ClevelandShooter]

PhilOhio, I happen to concur with your thoughts. This whole thing started as a " I'm going to buy another gun at the Creek" kind of trip. As any class 3 shooter /collector will tell you you don't have a collection until you have a beltgun and a Thompson. I am very fortunate to have friends and acquaintances that are in this sport and strive to make more all the time. Although it is great to see my guns climb in value that is not what I'm about. I like the learing, shooting and the friends that I meet. In the comming year I will attend the SAR show, Knob creek twice and now the Thompson function in August.

Thanks to all

Bill OUT

[Jebva]

Is the set your 5 gun set purchased from a dealer in Virginia? There was one set for sale at the gun show held at the Capital Expo Center in August and the dealer mentioned that there were two of these sets that he knew of with matching numbers. I will look and see if I have is contact information still in case your is the other set. Price was $35K

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Jebva,

 

Here is a link to one of these "rare" sets that ClevleandShooter dug down deep for:

 

http://www.arms-ordnance.com/inv/Thompson~5.html

[Jebva]

Arthur thanks for the link. This is the same collection I saw at the show in Virginia. I am sure he mentioned there wasa second set that the he knew about with matching numbers.

[ClevelandShooter]

Jebva, yes there are 2 sets that i know of. I have purchased one and do not know the wereabouts of the other. From information that I have gathered so far (undocumented) that Auto ord did not sell these as sets but as new models became available you could get the same serial number on the new model.

Bill

OUT

[SecondAmend]

The ad at the link says they originally had two sets with one being sold. I'm assuming ClevelandShooter bought the second set.

 

 

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Phil,

 

Arms & Ordnance had that ad running for over 2 1/2 years before they found Bill at a gun show. Over that time span hundreds, maybe thousands, of NFA internet suffers ran across that ad. After 2 years, Arms & Ordnance upped their posted price from $30K to $35K. If nothing else A&O get bonus points for chutzpah.

 

Is there a method to that seeming madness? I wonder. Sometimes some perspective buyers respond to the allure of sticker shock instead of recoiling from it. In another two or three years will that figure rise with the wave of NFA prices? I imagine it will take Bill the sort of patience A&O invested before he can find another Bill who has even more money to play with for Bill to make a profit. Of course it would take another 2 to 3 years beyond the next 3 years from when the set went up for sale to realize this theoretical purchase.

 

Yeah, $35K is what a Colt TSMG in your generic 90% condition currently brings. I guess for me that is the head scratch. Why buy the WH set for investment purposes, which Bill did since he said he wasn't going to shoot them, instead of the Colt that is not dependent on the vagaries of the investment roulette wheel, even though there is no such thing as a sure thing. Then again when money is not an object these considerations never come into play.

 

SecondAmendment,

 

That is the exact same worded ad that A&O has listed for over 2 years. This 1st set was apparently sold before they put the ad on the net.

[ClevelandShooter]

Arty, once again you assume. Assuming things makes all your good points moot.

 

"Arms & Ordnance had that ad running for over 2 1/2 years before they found Bill at a gun show".

 

Mr. Charles Logan did not "find me at a gun show" I have known him for years. We have discussed the set and other guns many times. After 13+ years at Knob Creek I have met many people. That being said, without getting specific there were myself and 2 well known Class 3 dealers involved in this transaction. I don't believe that they all know it. It goes like this I have this, you want that ,but the other guy has this etc.

See Arty when one isn't so cynical as you you develop friendships. Things and deals happen and all walk away happy. Who knows, Tomorrow someone may make me an offer and guess what. They will be gone. As I said my plan is to leave them for my son as all of my guns are. But while I still walk this earth I will do with my toys as I see fit. My CMP M1D has moved on as I guess my 1941 Johnson will now. Things come and things go. But in the meantime I learn, shoot and have fun with my toys. Yes i call them toys as anything that is not necessary I consider toys.

 

Bill Out