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#1 Armydoc0115

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

Good day everyone!

   Just wondering if any other enthusiasts have a registered RPzB 88mm that they fire anything out of.  There are no rockets out there anymore, so I'm wondering if anyone has rigged up any dummy rounds or sub caliber systems that they use their Panzerschreck with.  

    It's a wonder that they remain in the registry at all.  Although I heard from a guy once that the reason for that is someone rigged something up back in the 80s and blew something up with it.  I think Ed Holt from Urban Armory was the one that told me that.

   Anyway, would love to hear what anyone else is doing with their Panzerschrecks.

-David


Edited by Armydoc0115, 05 August 2017 - 01:22 PM.

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#2 TSMGguy

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 05:15 PM

Good page on the subject here:

 

http://www.bergflak.com/psindex.html

 

I always wanted to find an original Panzerschreck rocket, or a really good repro, but none appear to be had.


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#3 PTRS-14.5

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 05:05 PM

I found a deactivated example years ago for mine. I can post an image in a bit.
Have never heard of a live fire of one since 1986. One could use a large solid fuel engine to propel a model example I'd suppose. From what I see, the weight of a true unit would take a powerful motor, falling into the restricted capacity.

I have one and know of other registered ones. Over the years, I have inspected a few "reproductions" that I stayed away from due to "originality" issues. 😨

Years back, someone in europe was building reproduction rounds... sorry can't remember who it was in the early 90's


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Edited by PTRS-14.5, 06 August 2017 - 05:13 PM.

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#4 Armydoc0115

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 09:55 PM

I wonder what they are using during some of these reenactments where they are doing demonstrations.

-David


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#5 StooperZero

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 11:29 PM

 motors are easy.. 

 

 

most are a trip to walmart. 


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#6 PTRS-14.5

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 01:14 AM

Motors are easy...? What Estes' D motors? They may propel a very light model rocket type unit for the reinactor types but WTF fun is that? From what I remember any larger solid rocket motors are restricted.

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Edited by PTRS-14.5, 11 August 2017 - 03:09 AM.

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#7 Armydoc0115

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 11:07 AM

I think that would be the issue.  What can I legally put in something without generating a visit from the ATF.  Trying to stay legit!  No need to go to jail over a 70+ year old metal tube (albeit an awesome 70+ year old metal tube).


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#8 PTRS-14.5

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:53 AM

Image attached

PTRSAttached File  IMG_20170809_121821562PKZ.jpg   63.43K   10 downloads


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#9 JimB

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 03:22 AM

There are reusable high power rocket motors more powerful than Estes D's

 

As far as building a round, well you would be legally limited to 1/4 ounce of explosive charge, forget the propellent limit off the top of my head but there are some hobbiest exemptions that may be able to be applied.

 

Used to be a character that was selling 66mm simulators for the M72 LAW back in the late 90s


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#10 Sig

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:09 AM

There are quite a few regulations on use of rocket propellents to fly rockets, with several agencies having their fingers in the pot, including NFPA, ATF and FAA.  I attached a link to a short reference overview, it is from the National Association of Rocketry or NAR organization.

 

http://www.nar.org/f...ws-regulations/

 

There are two organizations that guide rocketeers NAR and TRA that provide certification guidelines for rockets including use of high power rocket motors that are reusable.  Sale of these high power motors whether single use or reusable are restricted to those that have certification from NAR or TRA.  Having had that certification in the past, I let it lapse, and top of mind there are a few things in here that would need quite a bit of research on legality.  

 

Flying any high power rocket vertically, requires some FAA involvement for airspace clearance. I am going to guess even flying one horizontally say downrange could raise the ire of the FAA, whether it flys in controlled space or not.  I think of this because the FAA now regulates UAS's or drones even though for the most part they never fly in controlled airspace.  

 

Even though the ATF relaxed its interpretation of ammonium perchlorate (APCP) from an explosive , which was BTW only by order of a court, what I am not sure if the use of such in a RPzB 88mm would be interpreted as "sporting" and not interpreted as dangerous, even if only a dummy round.  This would be something I would want a very clear understanding of before hand.  Another link provided.  https://www.atf.gov/...ellant/download


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#11 JimB

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:26 PM

There are quite a few regulations on use of rocket propellents to fly rockets, with several agencies having their fingers in the pot, including NFPA, ATF and FAA.  I attached a link to a short reference overview, it is from the National Association of Rocketry or NAR organization.

 

http://www.nar.org/f...ws-regulations/

 

There are two organizations that guide rocketeers NAR and TRA that provide certification guidelines for rockets including use of high power rocket motors that are reusable.  Sale of these high power motors whether single use or reusable are restricted to those that have certification from NAR or TRA.  Having had that certification in the past, I let it lapse, and top of mind there are a few things in here that would need quite a bit of research on legality.  

 

Flying any high power rocket vertically, requires some FAA involvement for airspace clearance. I am going to guess even flying one horizontally say downrange could raise the ire of the FAA, whether it flys in controlled space or not.  I think of this because the FAA now regulates UAS's or drones even though for the most part they never fly in controlled airspace.  

 

Even though the ATF relaxed its interpretation of ammonium perchlorate (APCP) from an explosive , which was BTW only by order of a court, what I am not sure if the use of such in a RPzB 88mm would be interpreted as "sporting" and not interpreted as dangerous, even if only a dummy round.  This would be something I would want a very clear understanding of before hand.  Another link provided.  https://www.atf.gov/...ellant/download

 

A bit of that changed SIG

Obama's Drone regulation silliness was overturned this Spring

 

http://www.popsci.co...ne-registration

 

Schumer & company have vowed to bring it before but as it stands it's dead as a regulation.

 

In another regulation FAA assumed control of all "airspace" over a foot above ground level.  That was right before the Drone nonsense.

previously we had personal air space over private property, think it was 100', may have been even higher.

Allegedly this was done to protect Law Enforcement Drones.

 

The NAR like the AMA is a non governmental body...their rules are about meaningless in a Court Room.  Plenty of hobby shops & outlets sell high power rocket motors cash & carry out the door.  You DO NOT need NAR certification to purchase them any more than you need to be an AMA member to fly model aircraft.

reality is though unless you are out there posting You Tube videos doing rank idiot things with your sims FAA won't be getting involved.

 

Same is true of fools with Tannerite and ATFE.


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#12 StooperZero

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:42 PM

why not register the tube as a DD/mortar ????


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#13 JimB

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:52 PM

why not register the tube as a DD/mortar ????

Wouldn't make a bit of difference as the rounds themselves if not compliant would be DDs in and of themselves.


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#14 Armydoc0115

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:56 PM

Exactly.  My Panzerschreck is, in fact, a registered DD.  And Jim is right.  Each individual round would be considered a DD.  But interesting conversation.  This all gets pretty complicated.

-David


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#15 StooperZero

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:25 AM

so. 

 

why not convert to percussion???? 

this sounds retarded but.  with round + fuel weight being DD.

 

 

Why not convert to a percussion version ?  using black powder, like a shoulder mounted cannon? 


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#16 StooperZero

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:26 AM

m fittings. 

 

 

geez editing...


Edited by StooperZero, 15 August 2017 - 12:27 AM.

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#17 JimB

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:01 AM

so. 

 

why not convert to percussion???? 

this sounds retarded but.  with round + fuel weight being DD.

 

 

Why not convert to a percussion version ?  using black powder, like a shoulder mounted cannon ?

 

Not enough meat in the tube to really do that


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#18 PTRS-14.5

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:58 AM

Trooper you do understand that this is a rocket launched from a tube...?
Either you understand this or your just drawing this along for some reason... or don't have a clue...

PTRS
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