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Guns Of The Dillinger Era


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Here are a couple of guns out of my gun safe:

 

Winchester, Model 1907, .351 Self loading was from the North Dakota State Prison at Bismark,

North Dakota according to the person who sold it to me.

 

 

 

This Ithaca Auto & Burglar Gun was carried in a holster mounted on the side panel by the

emergency hand brake in his patrol car by a county sheriff from

1937 to 1958. His son took over as the sheriff from 1958 to 1978,

and also carried the gun in a same style holster. Many a

criminal has stared into the muzzles of this gun. I bought

this gun from the retired sheriff in 1981.

post-4519-0-91864400-1325819119_thumb.jpg

post-4519-0-23374500-1325819161_thumb.jpg

post-4519-0-54918400-1325819182_thumb.jpg

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The Winchester 07, 351 is a hell of a nice gun. San Antonio "gunsmith to the outlaws " HS Lebman had made a couple for the Dillinger gang with extended magazine, muzzle break and FULL AUTO. He installed a Thompson wood grip on the front.

I had one that I modified with a Thompson grip, but removable as not to harm the gun, semi-auto of course. I could never figure out how he mounted the Thompson grip till I visited the Tucson PD that had the Dillinger weapons on display.

He made the entire horizontal front grip out of metal, duplicating the mounting of the 21 Thompson. Then the wood grip was screwed on with the long screw just like a Thompson.

BTW, HS Lebman was a saddle maker by trade, his legal job I guess.

Sandy

Edited by OCM
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Biggest problem is finding the .351 ammo!!

 

OCM,

Not a problem if you reload and have a friend with a small lathe.

357 Rem max can be modified to 351 specs by turning the rims and trimming.

A 351 mag bullet sizing die can be purchased from Lyman and 357 mag dies can be used. One company also makes 351 win dies.

I like 158 gr Berry plated 357 bullets which I size to 351.

I use 15 gr 2400 powder for a vel of 1600 fps.

This load is much more accurate than the factory load. I believe the factory loaded too hot for the 1907 , and this caused poor accuacy.

Jim C

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Biggest problem is finding the .351 ammo!!

 

OCM,

Not a problem if you reload and have a friend with a small lathe.

357 Rem max can be modified to 351 specs by turning the rims and trimming.

A 351 mag bullet sizing die can be purchased from Lyman and 357 mag dies can be used. One company also makes 351 win dies.

I like 158 gr Berry plated 357 bullets which I size to 351.

I use 15 gr 2400 powder for a vel of 1600 fps.

This load is much more accurate than the factory load. I believe the factory loaded too hot for the 1907 , and this caused poor accuacy.

Jim C

Good info, way out of my league to do something like this. One of the guys, in the 30s reenactment group, did some conversion to be able to use a 07 in the program.

 

Your process Jim, ( or close ) is described in good detail in John Henwood's book, " The Forgotten Winchesters, The History of the Models, 1905, 1907 and 1910 Self-loading Rifles. " 1995. He also did a book, " The 8 & the 81, History of Remington's Pioneer Autoloading rifles. I had a model 8 but don't have that book.

 

Model 8 was the gun that was shot first into Clyde Barrow from about 30 feet away, got him right in the noggen. Refer to my photo of the death hat.

 

OCM

 

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Clyde & Bonnie cleaning their weapons & an actual photo of Clyde Barrow firing his pistol with WD Jones( Bonnie took the photo) Edited by OCM
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The Racine robbery Thompson, Navy overstamp, on display and a collection of Dillinger/Clyde Barrow -type weapons, some real, some display.

Also an original pencil drawing of a TSMG , done & autographed by Machine Gun Kelly while he was in prison.

Edited by OCM
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Lots of goodies here, Thompsons, BARS and the pistol Dillinger had on him when killed.... Edited by OCM
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General FYI-

 

You Tube : You Can't Get Away With It, 1936, Hoover. Has a lot of great old Thompson/Dillinger stuff. Good films of the Thompson in action with the FBI.

 

OCM

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OCM,

I can better see what you were talking about on the BAR.

It's not a Monitor, is has a smaller comp and what appears to be a ribbed barrel.

The trigger frame does look to be Colt by it's angle, the FND frames were more vertical.

Also a WWII front grip is on it and most likely other non correct parts.

I wonder how the top of the receiver is marked?

 

I did view the Can't Get Away clip, it's very interesting.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

Edited by darrylta
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Pretty Boy Floyd's Thompson, # 7985,

Edited by OCM
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  • 2 weeks later...

OCM,

I can better see what you were talking about on the BAR.

It's not a Monitor, is has a smaller comp and what appears to be a ribbed barrel.

The trigger frame does look to be Colt by it's angle, the FND frames were more vertical.

Also a WWII front grip is on it and most likely other non correct parts.

I wonder how the top of the receiver is marked?

 

I did view the Can't Get Away clip, it's very interesting.

 

Thanks,

Darryl

 

 

Darryl-

Found this in files last week, picture of Frank Hamer's Colt Monitor.

OCM

Edited by OCM
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Sandy,

I'd say that's the real McCoy and looks to

be in great shape.

Did you get the serial number on it?

 

Side note: I made an offer on a fold out sales brochure.

I asked him to sleep on it, who knows it might pan out.

 

Thanks again,

Darryl

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No serial number, Darryl, this was taken by a friend of mine in Texas, many years ago. Found it cleaning files. This gun was used at the ambush of the dysfuntional couple.

 

Good luck on the sales brochure, a very rare item, especially since you are lucky enough to own a Colt Monitor.

 

Sandy

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  • 1 month later...

Misc outlaw guns....& outlaws

Colt mini on 38 Super, soap guns used by gang members to attempt escape

38superdillinger.jpg

escapeguns.jpg

Edited by OCM
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  • 2 months later...
OCm, great pictures, I really like your history trails. Growing up on the south Side of Chicago and now livivng in "Bloody Williamson" County, I have grown up following the Prohibition Era battles.
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Deacon:

 

Is that picture of Joe Friday from the episode where he killed a quy in a shootout amd the other quys

bullet had raised a plank in a shelf and was hiding behind the board and they mistook the lead streak

for a pencil mark and they almost never found it? (excuse the run on sentence) I think Friday had gone into the laundromat to buy a pack of cigs. if memory serves after all these years.

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OCm, great pictures, I really like your history trails. Growing up on the south Side of Chicago and now livivng in "Bloody Williamson" County, I have grown up following the Prohibition Era battles.

 

Thanks, a labor of love- A lot of the stuff I post, or most of the stuff I post come out of a private collection/museum I owned. We had a private museum set up with display cases the whole nine yards, floor to ceiling stuff in different display rooms. This was a 44 year collection gone wild ? Cars, guns, photos, personal items of the gangsters.

Examples included Dillinger's death mask, hat Bonnie & Clyde had on them when killed, Dillinger's bullet-proof vest, Dillinger's car, loads of original family photos, drawings, books, magazines, letters, poems ( by Bonnie Parker ) , Movie memoribila & autographs, newspapers, historic artifacts, on & on & on.

The National Museum of Crime & Punishment in Washington, DC came out and offered to buy me out. We hand packed and catagorized about a 1000 items in 4 days.

A lot of these photos came from me on a saved files, I also have a ton of research material, in a total mess right .

 

 

OCM

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loosecanon, yup, that is the episode from Dragnet.

OCM, your dedication to your goals shows through.

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  • 10 months later...

This is a 1921AC Colt Thompson, it was in service just North of Indianapolis when Dillinger was running around. Has two " Blanks " and two " Patented " and a Stanley L drum. Badge is from the PD that owned the Thompson. Case is a Fox case, rod & complete kit are from Gordon Herigstad. Peters ammo is original, sealed full box.

 

OCM

DSCN7006.JPG

Edited by OCM
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  • 4 months later...

Winchester 1907, 351 converted to FA by HS Lebman. Recovered at the Dillinger gang arrest in Tucson.

This is one converted to the HS Lebman specs but semi auto as original. Restored.

DSCN7226.JPG

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Sandy,

You need to retake the picture with a better background. Put it on a white bath towel.

If you own a Winchester M94 30-30, you have the makings to do a re-enactment picture of the guns recovered from the little Bohemia raid. Just lay the proper guns on the floor next to your cast iron stove, dress in a beatup dark jacket and have your wife snap a pic. Lets see how close you can come.

Jim C

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Sandy,

You need to retake the picture with a better background. Put it on a white bath towel.

If you own a Winchester M94 30-30, you have the makings to do a re-enactment picture of the guns recovered from the little Bohemia raid. Just lay the proper guns on the floor next to your cast iron stove, dress in a beatup dark jacket and have your wife snap a pic. Lets see how close you can come.

Jim C

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I do have all the guns, but can't do the Elmer Fudd outfit of the guy pointing to the display. I believe that was taken in the Nelson cabin at Little Bo.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a new one for you Gangster history buffs.... Just for fun today-

Travels with Dillinger.

Dillinger Sepia.jpg

Edited by OCM
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