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How many USGI M3A1 Grease Guns are on the registry?


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#1 NFA amnesty

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:08 PM

Wondering if anyone knows the number of USGI M3A1 Grease Guns that are fully transferable (Form 4)?   I would assume the number is very low but........

 

Of those, how many are guide lamps vs Ithaca.

 

Thanks everyone. 


Edited by NFA amnesty, 08 December 2018 - 10:13 PM.

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#2 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 10:08 PM

In my estimation from many years following the markets on a wide variety of transferable MGs, the number of fully transferable Ithaca grease guns in the NFRTR is very, very small. Obtaining numbers of specific models of grease guns is impossible at this point in time, but it is clear to me that there are many more pre-May samples of Ithacas than transferables. The overwhelming majority of grease guns are Guide Lamp guns. Ithaca manufactured comparatively few grease guns.

I don't count the Medea repro grease guns as part of this issue.

Very slowly ATF/NFA is working at cataloging the numbers of specific models of different types of MGs in the NFRTR but there are major hurdles to this endeavor due to the way that MG ID and serial registration information was handled since 1934. Many longtime collectors, dealers, etc have fairly accurate compilations of the numbers of some vintage MGs in the NFRTR. The numbers and types of pre-'68 MGs In the NFRTR are the most difficult to filter out.

The importation of M3/M3A1s post-WWII by GIs as well as importation prior to and during the DEWAT retail burst in the mid 1950s was considerable and many of these wound up being registered before or during the '68 Amnesty. That was just good luck.

Others might have some ideas about this as well.FWIW


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#3 Junkhunter

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 11:30 PM

I did a hunt for information on transferable Ithacas. After searching the internet and some auction books I only came up with 4 brought to public sale in the last 20 years.
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#4 NFA amnesty

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 03:05 PM

Thank you gentleman for the info.  Sounds like the M3A1 Guide Lamps are rare but Ithaca extremely so!  

 

I just purchased a reactivated war trophy M3a1 and it is a Guide Lamp.  


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#5 Blanksguy

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 09:05 PM

NFA-amnesty,

Was that M3A1 that looks like the rear of the receiver was "repaired" (?).


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#6 NFA amnesty

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:22 PM

NFA-amnesty,

Was that M3A1 that looks like the rear of the receiver was "repaired" (?).

Yes, believe a new rear cap was welded into the receiver.  


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#7 huggytree

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 09:41 AM

why would a dewat have the back end cut off?

 

is guild lamp still on the form 4 as the maker? or is the guy who welded it now the maker?

 

just wondering if its considered a rewat or a reweld/remanufacturer???

 

i saw the price and heard from another interested party about the rewelded part...rewats often sell for close to full price and for ruben that gun was -$7,000....made me think its has more of a story to tell....im sure it will work great and the price is a bargain to get into a m3.....i was eyeing it up myself


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#8 Mongo

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 10:00 AM

I do not know of the gun you guys are talking of but I would assume that the rear end of the receiver was damaged by the recoil spring assembly being repeatedly being slammed into to it by the bolt.


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#9 M17ap

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 02:58 PM

Rear receiver on M3 a1 is quite common to be stretched out due to extensive use. The rear recoil plate is just a small bar compared to M3 where the plate is a round disc same size as rear of receiver. Much better support. Rear plate was changed so upon disassembly you did not have to pull trigger guard and the ejector housing. Always look at rear receiver of a1’s for sale about half of them show stretch.
Remember when these guns were developed they were considered throw a ways due to cheap cost.
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#10 Blanksguy

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 08:08 PM

Is this a photo of a repaired receiver-rear (?).

Attached Files


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#11 NFA amnesty

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:29 PM

06-600x400.jpg


Edited by NFA amnesty, 10 December 2018 - 11:32 PM.

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#12 Got Uzi

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Posted 11 December 2018 - 04:48 AM

06-600x400.jpg


This is the one you bought??? I must admit Im jealous if you did. That is a beautiful battle field modification gun. An M3 modified to use cocking handle in the bolt. Set up in a similar fashion as the STEN
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#13 NFA amnesty

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 02:40 PM

06-600x400.jpg


This is the one you bought??? I must admit Im jealous if you did. That is a beautiful battle field modification gun. An M3 modified to use cocking handle in the bolt. Set up in a similar fashion as the STEN

 

No, was just having fun with folks.  That is a beauty though, love the GI modification.  I bet it was an enlisted man that came up with that idea!!!


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#14 huggytree

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 03:01 PM

that weld can be made invisible...my local smith showed me a sample he did that looked like Frankenstein inside, but outside was 100% flawless. he tweaked my rewelded mp40 and made the internal welds disappear....so there is no need to accept the weld marks as is if you dont want to. 


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#15 NFA amnesty

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 05:04 PM

Good to know, thank you.


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#16 huggytree

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 05:58 PM

Did you buy this gun? Ruben relisted it yesterday on sturm

I assume its not sold. Ive bought a gun from him . shipping to my dealer and its still on his website. But I assume if its sold he wouldnt repost it on sturm??

Edited by huggytree, 12 December 2018 - 05:59 PM.

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#17 Got Uzi

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Posted 12 December 2018 - 07:53 PM

I would love to have a GI conversion like that in my M3 collection.
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#18 NFA amnesty

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 02:55 PM

Did you buy this gun? Ruben relisted it yesterday on sturm

I assume its not sold. Ive bought a gun from him . shipping to my dealer and its still on his website. But I assume if its sold he wouldnt repost it on sturm??

Yes, I purchased it, and very happy and excited about it.  I had a Medea M3A1 in the past but sold it, and really missed not having a grease gun.  I was a 19E in the Army National Guard prior to going Regular Army and was assigned a M3A1.  


Edited by NFA amnesty, 13 December 2018 - 03:03 PM.

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#19 huggytree

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 07:22 PM

i think its a fair price....

 

a rare gun...id have it tweaked since its refinished anyways...$1k and it would be a beauty queen....and no one would know unless they looked down the inside of the tube....my mp40 welds are flawless...the finish will most likely be cerakote to match....but it might be already anyways

 

congrats....if i had the spare $ id consider it

 

maker on the form 4 is guide lamp?  (hope you checked)


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#20 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:07 PM

06-600x400.jpg

I seriously doubt that is a "GI" mod.  or even an armory mod.?    Very functional though!


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