Odd Bm59 For Sale

[mills41]

I spotted this recently for sale over on gunbroker and wondered if anyone else spotted at least two things that are strange as far as the markings on this rifle?Mills41

 

http://www.gunbroker...?Item=275785780

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My computer is old and slow,just like me. Is that a circle with a "T" in it below the Springfield?

Brings back the whole question of forged verses cast receivers.

Doug

[mills41]

What struck me as odd and something that I have never seen before was the fact that the "Armory" stamping was absent beneath Springfield on the heel of the receiver.Also strange was that the receiver was stamped Springfield Armory on the left side which is typical of receivers that are marked on the heel P.Beretta Garvone V.T.It also has the highest serial number that I have seen on a S.A. or P. Beretta marked BM59.I am wondering if this is one of the last rifles out the door and would love to know when it was shipped out,Mills41.

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Mills41,

My select-fire has the "Gardone V.T." on the heel and "Springfield Armory" on the side.(Purchased from an Oregon dealer 8/1997, no box (#X00030x) I have a semi with "Springfield Armory " and the circled T (trademark stamp?)after "Armory".(Purchased from Davidson's in an SA blue box 4/2001 #000046x)

I hadn't seen a semi with the SA on the side and PB GVT on the heel until May 2003. I got all excited because it was marked like my select fire.

 

It was on Sturm from Fidelis Firearms:

 

"Beretta BM-59 .308 98% unfired in the green label box,3-20rd mags, manual and sling.

The reciever(sic) is marked P.Beretta 7.62mm BM 59 Gardone V.T. Italia. serial # X0013XX,on

the left hand side of the reciever(sic) it is marked Springfield Armory $1745.00"

 

(I thought only SA inc. select-fire serial #'s started with "X".)

 

I also found a picture I printed out on 3/6/2003 of a PBGVT marked heel with serial # 0001440. I don't remember if it was select-fire or not, but for some reason I printed it out.

(I thought all SA inc. select-fires had PBGVT heels and serial #'s started with "X")

 

The BM59 we're talking about on GB has a mix of both "standardized" markings (If there are any?)

 

I am typing all this up before going back to the GB pictures ( my computer takes anywhere from 20seconds to 20 minutes to display specific GB ads)

 

Both of my BM59s had final fitting done to the bolt locking areas after they were parkerized.(Naked steel) Somewhere around 1992-93 I remember RSI selling select-fires and semis after SA inc. was bought from the Reeses. (I should have looked on WIKI before I started, but I am too lazy to type all this over again.)

 

So were the Reeses still making BM59 receivers after they sold SA inc. or just putting together rifles from left-over, all-ready marked and "finished" at SA inc., BM59 receivers?

 

If you have the patience could you respond to this post with the serial number of the gun we are talking about on Gunbroker? The pictures show it was shipped in a blue SA box with Bob Reese on the return label. I guess they got to take and still use SA boxes for receivers/guns made during their reign at SA inc.?

 

I know the assault rifle ban started in 9/94 (which got me $20,000 in debt in 6 weeks time)but I don't remember when it ended. The point being that all the receivers already had to be on the books, did Bob Reese worry about selling them in order?

 

Thanks,

Doug

(Marginally Functional Computer Geek)

I love the way Berreta turned the M1 Garand into the equivalent of an Italian sports car.

 

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I tried to edit my above post to delete the misinformation about SA inc. no longer belonging to the Reese's. Apparently it was hear-say gun show gossip held as truth by me since the early 1990's.

I apologize for my ignorance,

Doug

[mills41]

Hi Doug

Yes semi auto P.B Gardone V.T. with an "X" serial number do exist although I suspect they are very few and far between from the small number observed over the years.This is only my speculation but I think that the "X" prefixed receivers were destined to be made into select fire rifles but the Hughes amendment in 1986 put a halt to any new manufactured machineguns so the remaining receivers were all destined to be made into semi autos.BM59's were sold at onetime by Springfield Armory and the select fire rifles were sold by R.S.I. which later became Reese Surplus.The rifle pictured in the auction looks to have a very high serial number in the 1900 range and it struck me odd that the Armory in Springfield Armory was omitted on the heel of the receiver.I think it is also the first time that I have seen a receiver that was stamped on the side Springfield Armory as that was where the receivers marked on the heel P.Beretta Gardone V.T. were usually stamped with the Springfield Armory name.I am betting that this may be one of the very last BM59's to be assembled by Reese Surplus prior to them selling out the remaining parts and or running out of receivers to build complete rifles if that was the case,Mills41.

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Mills41,

I finally got the pictures. It looks like #?001914. Seven digits total. I can't clearly see the first digit it kind of looks like it might be a 0 with an X overstamp. I also saved the side view. The way the cartridge clip guide looks on my 2 guns, I could never see how the receivers could be forged and then machined. (So I have leaned towards investment cast) The pic of the receiver 1914 looks like the clip guide is separate from the receiver.

I looked hard at mine again yesterday with a magnifying glass. There are undercut edges so it looks like a dovetail cut and then a welding bead is run on the left side and ground or machined down to a hollow scallop to lock it to the receiver.

1914's clip guide doesn't look like it is welded. It also doesn't look like it is dovetailed. In the past someone said Reese sold clip guides, anyone have one? I still wonder about what stamps were done where or if all markings were done here in the U.S.A. with Beretta's permission.

 

Definitely a combination of weird markings. (Monday morning first run after a 3 day weekend?)

 

Doug

 

[mikebaker1129]

I had a loose clip guide at one time. They are installed via the slot in the receiver and welded just as you mentioned.

[mills41]

Hi Doug

Rest assured that if you have a BM59 marked P.Beretta or Springfield Armory you have a forged receiver.As Mike pointed out the stripper clip guides are indeed added to the receiver in a separate operation.Beretta was supplied with the machinery from Winchester to make the M1 garand and the BM59 is just a modification of the basic M1 receiver.I looked at the pictures again of the rifle in question and it looks like the serial number is preceded with three zeroes.I have never seen a Springfield Armory heel marked receiver with an X prefix but that doesn't mean they don't exist.Long standing rumors were that all the receivers that were finished machined by Beretta had the P.Beretta heel markings with the Springfield Armory import stamp on the side and receivers marked Springfield Armory on the heel were manufactured with receivers that were finish machined here in the US from Beretta forgings.Whether this is true or not is merely speculation as a side by side comparison shows they are identical in all respects.I am leaning towards that they were all marked here in the US as I once personally visited RSI and Colleen showed me Bob's personal BM59 Nigerian and it was heel marked P.Beretta Gardone V.T. with a serial number of all zeroes.I guess one day we may all find out the mystery,Mills41.