Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) I was going to wait a few years before I buy a WWII Thompson but other members urge me not to wait and pay higher prices. I might be able to get one soon. What do you guys think of this one? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=474703320 I have so many questions to ask. How do I know if a gun has been tampered with (ie rewelded) if its not obivious? If I think a gun is legit, do you recommend seeing it in person if that entails flying out to see it? What about transfer times. I've been reading that it can take some time before the transfer is approved. In 89, I only had to wait 6 weeks when I bought my MK760! Do I go the the regular route or form a trust? Would a trust be quicker? I'm not sure if Law Enforcement is signing in my area. As far as payment goes - is it common practice to just put a deposit on the gun and wait for the transfer or pay in full and the owner/dealer holds on to it until approval? Or can the gun be sent to a local dealer who will handle the transfer? Its a little unnerving making a large payment on something whithout taking possession of it but I know thats the process. I need to get a good book on Thompsons and educate myself about the differences of each model. I like the M1 or MIA1 models the best. The 28 is nice too but from what I see its more expensive. Also are you guys afraid of shooting/damaging your original guns. Do you shoot factory ammo or reloads?Does anyone know of a decent Thompson for sale? Thanks for any help answering these questions!! Edited March 27, 2015 by Thompsonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) That is a bunch of questions, but you are also on the only and best forum for anything Thompson.For any gun you can't inspect in person, you should at least get high quality photos -(meaning better than these, and better than all but the very latest and best cell phones are capable of delivering) showing closeups of the outside and the inside of the (stripped) receiver. You're looking for welds and any other signs of damage. Post the photos here for the best analysis from multiple experienced and helpful members.There is a noticeable area of pitting on the side of the receiver directly above the trigger; the photos carefully avoid showing a closeup of this area. It could be welding, or just pits. Either way, it's heavily reparkerized. Nothing I can see here that would make me buy a plane ticket.You're so right about becoming educated. American Thunder II, if you can find it, (or III -coming soon), is a must if your interest is concentrated in WWII Thompsons. But, The Ultimate Thompson Book, by Traci Hill, is the other must have book for a complete view of all things Thompson. The price of a decent M1 (meaning, in my opinion, not this one) and a decent 1928A1 is a lot closer than it used to be.Some shoot every one of their Thompsons; some don't. Some shoot reloads; some don't. I do, and I do. If you don't already have a C&R license, get one; then you can have direct transfer and shipment to you -from any state. Edited March 27, 2015 by mnshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBill Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 MnShooter is right on with getting a C&R license. Makes buying a Thompson (even a west hurley) much easier and faster.As far as my advice is concerned,I will not buy another Thompson or anything for that matter north of 25k without looking at it. Air fares and Motel 6 is nothing compared to possibly getting scammed. It happens all the time in the NFA community. I own five Thompsons and with the exception of the first one,I have traveled to check out the others. Photo shop or worse (cell phone photo's) can be very deceiving. The first 28 Savage I bought based on pictures,zero Thompson knowledge and dealer bullshit got me a reweld that would not fire. Please learn from my mistake.This board is full of very smart Thompson enthusiasts who i know are more than willing to help. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 A bit off topic - A C & R license will easily pay for itself with the Dealer Discount if you buy much of anything from Brownells and other vendors that give such a discount. Best of luck with your quest, and enjoy your Thompson when you get one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Henley Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I asked about this gun a couple of weeks ago, and got some basic information back on it. I believe the gentleman's name selling it is Bruce Weichel. I searched his name on this forum, and got one "hit" back which led me to believe he was a dealer in PA. Some of the Board members in that area may know him or have dealt with him in the past. There may be some Board members in his area who might could inspect the gun. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Thanks for answering the questions guys!! That's why I turned to this Forum! I'm obviously a rookie at this and want to learn from more experienced members and hopefully not make any mistakes. One question that wasn't answered that really concerns me is the payment aspect. Was I right about once its paid for it would be sent to a class II dealer near me that would do the paperwork and hold on to the gun until the transfer is approved? And regular or trust to get the gun in my possession? Great advice here. I had a C&R license at one time and gave it up around 6 years ago. I will look into getting another one. I know how they work except dealing with full-auto guns. I have had guns sent directly to my house with the license but I know that won't happen with the class III stuff. Does it help make the transfer easier? Sorry for all the questions and I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Henley Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 My experience with Thompson's is most sellers want the full payment up front to start the transfer, but it's negotiable and some sellers will do a 50/50 (half to start the transfer and then the other half upon approval by BATF). If you're out of state, then you have to determine if the gun is on a Form 3 (which would enable a SOT dealer to SOT dealer transfer--which should take less time) or Form 4 (which would have to be transferred to a SOT dealer (in state or out of state)--unless it's an in state transfer in which case it could be from seller to buyer). I think the gun is in PA and I believe you're in Florida, so it could transfer to your dealer in Florida and then transfer to you on a Form 4 (two transfers although the dealer to dealer is no $200 tax). On the other hand, if it's a C&R gun then it can transfer directly to you from out of state. This of course saves transfer time and costs, which is why a C&R license is so beneficial, among other reasons like interstate travel (where legal). I've never done a trust, always gotten my CLEO to sign my Form 4, so I can't really speak to trusts but others can. Just to emphasize, yes, a C&R SMG can transfer from out of state seller directly to C&R holder buyer without having to go through a SOT dealer. The gun will come to your front door. There are other factors to consider as it relates to shipping carriers, which if and when you get to that point there are some threads in the Class 3 Forum on shipping. Of course, if it's a dealer to (your) dealer transfer you will not have to worry about shipping carriers because there are different rules for dealers (FFL holders) with the USPS. Hopefully, I've adequately explained but others can build onto this if desired. Let us know if other questions. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 TL,First off 15K would be an excellent buy for an M1 TSMG.25K would not be a excellent buy. A friend bought 2 M1/M1A1 guns in less than a year for 18K and 16K. One was from a board member right here.One thing I hate in auctions is a damn reserve. In most cases the reserve is very close to the buy now and the buy now is not a good deal.Theoretically this gun should not sell if the reserve is close to 25K.Flying to Pa to see the gun is probably a waste of time and money unless you are willing to pay the high price.If it were me I would watch the auction to see if it sells. If it does don't worry another will come along. Old people, like myself, are dying every day . The trick is to buy the gun from the widow and not the dealer the widow sells the gun to.If it doesn't sell, he may agree to a lower price down the road.In the mean time find out about the local chief signing. Should be easy for a fireman.If you think a C&R license is a good idea, then get one. Personally I never did.Keep putting money in the cookie jar and watching.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 spending that much money, see the gun in person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 My experience with Thompson's is most sellers want the full payment up front to start the transfer, but it's negotiable and some sellers will do a 50/50 (half to start the transfer and then the other half upon approval by BATF). If you're out of state, then you have to determine if the gun is on a Form 3 (which would enable a SOT dealer to SOT dealer transfer--which should take less time) or Form 4 (which would have to be transferred to a SOT dealer (in state or out of state)--unless it's an in state transfer in which case it could be from seller to buyer). I think the gun is in PA and I believe you're in Florida, so it could transfer to your dealer in Florida and then transfer to you on a Form 4 (two transfers although the dealer to dealer is no $200 tax). On the other hand, if it's a C&R gun then it can transfer directly to you from out of state. This of course saves transfer time and costs, which is why a C&R license is so beneficial, among other reasons like interstate travel (where legal). I've never done a trust, always gotten my CLEO to sign my Form 4, so I can't really speak to trusts but others can. Just to emphasize, yes, a C&R SMG can transfer from out of state seller directly to C&R holder buyer without having to go through a SOT dealer. The gun will come to your front door. There are other factors to consider as it relates to shipping carriers, which if and when you get to that point there are some threads in the Class 3 Forum on shipping. Of course, if it's a dealer to (your) dealer transfer you will not have to worry about shipping carriers because there are different rules for dealers (FFL holders) with the USPS. Hopefully, I've adequately explained but others can build onto this if desired. Let us know if other questions. RobertThanks Robert you answered my questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) On the issue of payment, many more sellers seem to be requiring full payment up front, but, can't hurt to ask. I've paid in full most of the time, but will never (again) mail funds without receipt of a signed and notarized sales contract. The contract should stipulate that upon receipt of funds, the seller will immediately mail you all unregulated parts. In the case of a Thompson, this leaves the seller holding the stripped barreled receiver.You will have possession of the (hopefully) matching grip frame, bolt assembly, stocks, magazines, drums, etc. In addition to some peace of mind during the wait, the final insured, registered shipment can be In a much smaller, non-gun sized container. Edited March 29, 2015 by mnshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 TL,First off 15K would be an excellent buy for an M1 TSMG.25K would not be a excellent buy. A friend bought 2 M1/M1A1 guns in less than a year for 18K and 16K. One was from a board member right here.One thing I hate in auctions is a damn reserve. In most cases the reserve is very close to the buy now and the buy now is not a good deal.Theoretically this gun should not sell if the reserve is close to 25K.Flying to Pa to see the gun is probably a waste of time and money unless you are willing to pay the high price.If it were me I would watch the auction to see if it sells. If it does don't worry another will come along. Old people, like myself, are dying every day . The trick is to buy the gun from the widow and not the dealer the widow sells the gun to.If it doesn't sell, he may agree to a lower price down the road.In the mean time find out about the local chief signing. Should be easy for a fireman.If you think a C&R license is a good idea, then get one. Personally I never did.Keep putting money in the cookie jar and watching.Jim CThanks for your help Jim. I would love to find one for under 20K. I'm not going to rush and buy the first one that comes along. I was going to research this gun some more and maybe ask for more detailed pictures even if its to learn more about Thompsons. I would not pay the 24K and would offer less if it didn't sell.Believe it or not, years ago when I had my MK760, I went to the Police Chief of the City I worked for as a fireman, showing him my paperwork and he still refused to sign for another MG. They are pretty anti-gun in my county and that's why many guys here go with the trusts. I spoke to a collector a few months ago and he said they sign 1 day a month but I haven't confirmed that. In the meanwhile, I will keep watching like you say!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 spending that much money, see the gun in personI agree! It would be nice to have with me someone who is knowledgeable about the guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 On the issue of payment, many more sellers seem to be requiring full payment up front, but, can't hurt to ask. I've paid in full most of the time, but will never (again) mail funds without receipt of a signed and notarized sales contract. The contract should stipulate that upon receipt of funds, the seller will immediately mail you all unregulated parts. In the case of a Thompson, this leaves the seller holding the stripped barrel receiver.You will have possession of the (hopefully) matching grip frame, bolt assembly, stocks, magazines, drums, etc. In addition to some peace of mind during the wait, the final insured, registered shipment can be In a much smaller, non-gun sized container.Great ideas thanks!! When the time comes I'll take your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 TL,Its good to stay in contact with the above seller. Never know what will develop.I agree with mnshooter the most suspicious area is the pits behind the ejector. Close ups required.Make sure you attend the MG shoots that our resident Vet invited you to. Some one at the shoot may have an M1 that they do not want to sell today. Tomorrow they may need the money.Talk to as many people as possible and have them show you how to strip an M1. Ask a lot of questions.Good luck.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I just noticed he dropped the price a grand .... its now 23K Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 TL,Hopefully he will drop 1k every two days.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thompsonlover Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) That would be nice!! I'm trying to contact him but forgot my gunbroker password. The guy does have excellent feedback. Edited March 27, 2015 by Thompsonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) I think I would pass on this gun. I don't like the line of pits on the receiver. nor the little ding on the corner in the upper left hand side of the receiver pitting shouldn't form a line, it should be random. Pitting in a line is maybe indicative of a weld, the porosity of the weld exposed by machining. I don't like that the gun has a fresh refinishing job. Why did it need to be refinished? had to be some reason. If the gun is parkerized, I'd like it to be a WWII arsenal job with a nice patina, the discoloration that comes from gun oil, dirt and hand grease. Edited March 27, 2015 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 A bill of sale is fine and everything, but it's not going to help you any if the deal is a scam or the seller is dishonest. I know people who got cheated out of $20,000+ by contractors, they sued and won, still never saw a penny back. Find an honest guy to buy from. The paperwork is just the icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) heres a decent one that sold recently you shouldn't have a hard time finding one like this at around this price http://davidspiwak.com/M1A1_(sn-728568).html maybe even find one a little bit nicer at a little less cost Edited March 27, 2015 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Where about in south Florida are you? I'm in southern palm beach county, if you have any questions or you need help finding a dealer to do a transfer let me know, I have dealer doing a suppressor transfer for me right now for $50 which is pretty cheap for a Class III transfer. Also, not many CLEOs are pro-NFA items in south Florida, and the ATF is considering changing the trust route in May requiring a CLEO sign off and some other changes. Edited March 27, 2015 by Kilroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KR09 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I was also taking a look at this gun but was put off by the apparent pock marks or rust pitting on the left side of the receiver above the trigger. I agree that the other pictures omit a close up of this obvious area of concern. Futher investigation is certainly warranted given the number of undisclosed welded receivers and rewats up for sale lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KR09 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I was looking at the Spiwak gun referenced earlier in this thread and noticed that it also had noticable pock marks on the left side of the receiver, this time in front of the ejector. Is this common with the M1's or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 It's not common for M1s to have pitting, not more than any other military small arm. It a wartime production gun and a lot of them saw rough service But there are plenty that are in great shape. Keep looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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