ATF Contacting Buyer with Application Issues

[huggytree]

one of my purchases has gotten a letter back asking for a copy of my trust....i never got this letter...my seller did...it was mailed 2 weeks ago, so i assume he has it, but has not contacted me.....

 

im trying to discuss this with the inspector(i know who it is)...i left a voice msg for her

 

ive had errors before...ive always got a copy of the problem in the mail.....not this time

 

will the inspector talk directly with the buyer?

 

i left all the info including their own inter office tracking # i was given

 

 

[Black River Militaria CII]

Well, you now have the letter so send a copy of the trust back with a copy of the letter. There is no other solution, and if there is the usual thirty day time limit on complying with the request, you sould be well advised to get in back to ATF/NFA under the wire or the transfer will be voided. Edited April 26, 2018 by Black River Militaria CII

[huggytree]

No I dont have the letter ..Im the buyer

 

Im told the seller had a letter mailed 4-11-18.

 

He doesnt answer emails or phone calls.

 

Its become a situation more and more. I dont want to get into whats going on with the seller just that theres communication issues.

 

Will the inspector call me back or ignore me?

Edited April 26, 2018 by huggytree

[johnsonlmg41]

They might call you back if you referenced the serial number and your trust as transferee? 90% of all correspondence ends up with the transferor, since in theory that's where the transfer originates, so they are to supply the corrected information. Really depends on the examiner, I've had three messages in for a week for one of them, then left a message with her supervisor two days ago.....no response from anyone so far. Others I've had email and phone exchanges fairly promptly, so it just depends. When they say they mail it, it really could take 2 weeks for the seller to receive it, that is not uncommon in my experience.

[huggytree]

im just hoping the seller calls me to tell me he got it or not.....communication has been difficult/non existent.......id like to just send the info in myself, but w/o the letter id be afraid it gets lost....

[Sandman1957]

I would send the letter to the NFA Branch as a potential insurance policy; Type a letter citing the serial number and internal correspondence number. I'd rather they had two copies instead of just one.

[Black River Militaria CII]

OK sorry, I misread your original post saying that you did not have the letter. As noted, transferor is the go-to person for error letters and other crap but ATF will often forward a copy of only the letter to the transferee as well. Transferee is not eligible to discuss various details with ATF of a transfer to him. Usually.

Although you don't have the reference number of the letter to thee seller, you do know the type of MG and maybe even the serial number, and presumably all the information about the seller, I'd suggest making a copy of your trust and send it with a letter explaining that your seller received the letter and you cannot contact him. Include all the known transaction details. If you have the name of a specialist send to that person or send to Ted Clutter c/o NFA Branch in Martinsburg.

It will help to have on record a timely effort to comply with the letter and since you have to supply the required document anyway, it can just as well go directly. If they have a copy from you per their request, it might even help to forstall a cancellation of the transfer application. At the least they will have a copy. Keep a copy of your letter.

Send with return receipt of delivery, although I've never heard of this bit of precaution every being successfully used to alter the course of an action by ATF.

Good luck….

[huggytree]

i have the specialists name, i have their internal tracking #.....im going to give it a few days to show up at my house....i may be getting overly excited over this when maybe the letter is delayed and my seller doesnt have a copy...my seller could be on vacation, etc.....in the past when there was an issue I received a letter along with my gun dealer....this transfer is different as its person to person(dont know if that means anything different to them)......i have emailed/phone called my seller w/ no response yet....but he typically is not responsive....not an ideal situation im in at this point....i figure i have a stronger case if some day legal means are necessary by having my stamp, but i doubt it comes to that....its an odd situation and w/ no communication ive got to do something on my own to fix it...

 

thanks for all the advice....im going to call the atf again, see if i can talk directly to the specialist and verify where it needs to go and see if i can get a copy of that letter

 

i knew i forgot a copy of my trust when i did another transfer a few weeks later....they have done a recent transfer for me, so they have a copy of my trust....they could also open up another transfer i have there w/ the trust included....(sigh)

Edited April 27, 2018 by huggytree

[huggytree]

tried calling again...got verification of the date of the letter was mailed out...copied my trust, my form 4 and wrote a nice letter to Patricia Bartles....the number they gave me is most likely the tracking # they need.....on the phone the person doesnt really know anything...they just transfered me to patricia again and i left another voice mail

 

im mailing out a copy right now...and i kept a copy...ill take the advice on a return receipt

 

from my experience of about 10 transfers now....some have come back and i got a copy of the letter along with my dealer....so me not getting a copy of the letter is new...its been a while since i had one w/ issues, so maybe they have changed their policy is the past 2 years...seems strange to keep the buyer in the dark...every letter i got was immediate....just like my stamps....5-7 days..were at 16 days right now...so i am losing hope that the seller did not get the letter already

 

from a legal stand point i think its best to have my stamp whatever the outcome on the gun legally.......if the seller has the letter im not sure what is going on in his head...all saved for a future story w/ hopefully a happy ending

Edited April 27, 2018 by huggytree

[huggytree]

once a stamp is issued who owns the gun?

 

i always find it odd the buyer is not sent notification the stamp is sent...the seller could just sit on a stamp forever

Edited April 27, 2018 by huggytree

[johnsonlmg41]

If you paid for it, you own it. Doesn't matter if the stamp was applied to the new transfer form, the transfer can still be voided and the money returned and the registration reverts back to the transferor. Yes, people have sat on approved transfers for long periods and have abused buyers. With the "net" most of them have been weeded out except for one "big" dealer who decided he was not going to hand over a large number of guns to the buyer, and a large lawsuit resulted (details on a sturm thread).

 

These deals are 100% faith based with little recourse other than civil court if an issue develops. ATF only helps generally if there is an issue with the registration/ transfer process. It got so bad with a few guys years back when people transferred stuff on form 5's to gunsmiths, ATF was forced to do away with that since some of those guys refused to transfer the guns back to the actual owners and there was really no mechanism to force them to do it? Based on registration alone the gunsmith was the current registrant. Ownership is always a separate issue and not in the purview of ATF.

 

I've probably owned 100 MG's over the years that I never held title to.

[huggytree]

gun is a build and 1/2 paid for.....unless i get a phone call with an explanation, its going to small claims court unless i get a refund........there is still a few honest explanations left......w/o a return phone call i can only assume the worst.....he may be using this as a way to slow down the transfer because the build is 9 months behind schedule......i believe he is an honest man....so its hard for me to accept.......an honest man will call me and explain whats going on....no call and i want a refund...

 

odd situation....didnt see it coming

 

i dont think the atf is going to give me any paper work...i wont even be able to prove the stamp is approved in court....seems like all communication is through the seller.....

 

whats more frustrating is this is only 1 of my issues...ive got another gun at a gunsmith for 10 months now....i finally told him 1 more month or ship it to another gunsmith.....response---its going to another gun smith.....hard not to stress out when you have 2 guns going no where....it has soured me towards future NFA purchases.......takes the fun out of it

 

thank you for all your advice...it has helped and i am using it....

Edited April 28, 2018 by huggytree

[Normal1959]

This discussion is eye opening and probably best to tell the FNG's to shop quality and service over price. 21 NFA items so far, with only 2 dealers, and the only issue i have is a lost tax stamp that we have requested a duplicate, certified copy.

Hate to hear about your problems. I'm going on a year for the one with the approved, lost tax stamp but patience is my only option and luckily i am getting good communication from the dealer.

Eric

[huggytree]

Hey!---the ATF inspector called me....i forgot the RPQ also--so i was able to email her the trust and RPQ...very nice on the phone

 

 

trust me i shopped for quality/high price on this one...i did not buy the cheap option..i went all out.....service? you never know until you get into it.....with a small builder its not like you can ask 100 people or check on line...

 

ive gotten a text finally.....were supposed to talk tomorrow...my gut has always told me he was an honest man...im in business, so i deal with lots of crappy people and i trust my gut and its correct 99% of the time....

 

ive now mailed him a copy of my trust also...it appears there may be more going on with the inspector too....being difficult

 

if the seller would have contacted me the day the letter came it would have solved all these issues....trust would be 100%..

 

the gunsmith fixing my other gun? ive ended that...he is shipping it back to me....i wasted 10 months on promises my gun was only a short while away...when in reality its still probably 4+ months away as he moves into making gun parts instead and even bragging about making parts for a zoo train...while my gun sits...its going off to a gun smith that communicates well, does gunsmithing vs choo choo parts and actually keeps to his schedule or even gets it done ahead of time...someone ive used before

 

 

with the shortage of good gunsmiths for full auto and so many people having problems with recent purchases im really tired.....until i can ship a gun off and get it back in 30-60 days and have a good experience im done with future purchases.......waiting close to 1 year with the build and 10 months on a different gun being repaired and having to start over has really soured me....im an impatient person and waiting these extreme time frames stress me out........a good job for the future? be a FA gunsmith...if you can pound them out in 60 days i think you could ask whatever price per hour you wanted.....im at a point where i would offer someone $200-500 extra just to start my gun this week vs waiting 3-4 months

Edited April 28, 2018 by huggytree

[pstidan]

Yea, I've had calls coming in to me. Got one when a Class 2 SOT was trying transfer a weapon to me and his SOT expired prior to starting the transfer. He 'forgot' to pay it. Got another when s/n digits were mixed up on a weapon I was transferring out. I specified the exact s/n as engraved on the receiver, but all those before me screwed up the s/n. I had to take a picture of the s/n and send it to the examiner. She told me this happens all the time. Oh well...

[jl7422]

Early on I came to expect that anything full auto I bought wasn't going to work despite the seller's assurances that it "runs like a top".. And I've been right most of the time. I think I've had 3 of 10 actually work straight out of the box (2 were new and 1 came directly from a PD inventory). It's just the way it is.

[huggytree]

im on 10 now....1 non-functional, 1 that worked at first and has gotten worse and worse (broken weld found)........and my mp40 which is just loose as hell, but works just fine....over all ive done well...but most were minty/NIB........the nicestest NIB one is the one with the cracked welds...figures

 

all had mag issues to some degree.....m16 needed different buffer to run with new upper...stuff like that.....still finding mag issues occasionally...i bring stickers with me to the range now...sticker any jam or issue.

 

Thompson has always worked well....mag issues from egged holes, but once i went through them im not sure if my thompson has ever jammed

 

my stamp issue appears to be solved...cutting it very close as forms went in the mail on friday and next friday is the deadline....ive done probably 8 emails with ATF and seller to make sure its handled.....fingers crossed at this point.....or BACK TO THE END OF THE LINE

Edited May 6, 2018 by huggytree