Phila Ordnance M1 Thompson Full Auto Blank Gun

[reconbob]

New from Phila Ordnance. All-machined steel construction Full Auto blank firing only

gun. Exactly like an original Thompson but with proprietary enhancements to prevent modification.

In the past those attempting to make blank guns have made them too fragile or weak for ball ammo

the result being low quality plastic and zinc toy quality guns shooting pipsqueak blanks. Phila Ordnance

has gone the other way designing an all-steel gun that is too strong to modify.

The result is a gun that is so realistic it is even referred to in the ATF classification letter as a

machine gun but is classified as a non-firearm. The gun feeds, fires, and ejects crimp brass blanks

full auto just like an original gun.

NO paperwork, NO FFL, NO NFA Forms, NO Registration, NO Taxes. You order direct, it gets

shipped direct to you just as if you were buying a book or DVD.

I am offering this here on the forum first. While the intended audience for this is battle-reenactors

it is also suitable for a Thompson collector and especially those who love Thompsons but live in

a no-machine gun state or those who don't have $15K+. You can even take it to a shoot and the

only thing that will give you away is the spent brass.

I am offering these to board members at a pre-production price of $2495. Pre-production

means the guns will be made here at Phila Ordnance, will have many (but not all) original parts

and will use original Thompson magazines. The special blanks for the gun sell for $25 per box of 50.

Because of required design features and safety the gun will not chamber or fire .45 ACP ammo or

.45 ACP blanks.

Later, when the gun goes into mass production only assembly will be done here, most if not

all of the parts will be new manufacture, and the guns will use a special blank firing mag which is not

interchangeable with a standard Thompson mag. (This is for states with high capacity magazine

bans). The gun has a new manufacture receiver, barrel, and bolt which cannot be modified.

Delivery will be approx February 2017. No deposit is required. If you want one let me know

I will put you on my list and contact you when ready to ship for the necessary info.

 

Many Thanks

 

Bob Bower/Phila Ordnance

Philaord@aol.com

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/IMG_7596_zpsl551zzjz.jpg

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/IMG_7598_zps7hrftjkv.jpg

[wwiifirearms]

Looks very cool!

[dam6]

Reconbob, let me be one of the first to say, I'll take one, let me know when and where to send the funds dam6, Scottsdale az

[james m]

Bob:
I do have a couple of questions. Will these blanks be reloadable?

Any plans for a 28 model?
Jim

Edited December 25, 2016 by james m

[Black River Militaria CII]

Beautiful! Wish MGs like that had been available when I was a kid! A quality blank-firing Thompson and the MP40 are two types of SMGs about which I get a number of calls every year. The MP40 seems to have been done, but not a really nice Thonpson that feels and looks correct.

Well done!

[reconbob]

The blanks are not reloadable, they are standard star crimp blanks

where the crimp opens and cannot be reloaded. This is normal for blanks

of this type - Swanson, Atlantic Wall, etc.

Yes will be doing a M1928 someday but I had to start somewhere...

 

Bob

[TSMGguy]

Just beautiful!

 

Where do the gasses from the fired blanks exit? Are the blanks fired from a backwards orientation?

 

(These were the things about the SSR blank firing guns that were a bit of a turn off.)

 

Thanks!

[reconbob]

The orientation of the blank is the same as a real gun. The blank goes in the chamber

nose first. The primer is in the base of the cartridge. When fired the gases vent out the

muzzle. Not the backwards firing oddball blank and mechanism you are referring to

which I think was the design of the now defunct SS Supply Room.

 

Bob

[R67]

Bob,

 

You do great work I am anxious to see better pictures of the internals. How does the Blank TSMG you have created comply with the BATF while being different than the backwards SS Room BFNG? How did you tweak the mechanics? Really interesting achievement, I will be saving my pennies for a blank firing M1928A1. Thanks for posting Bob, you always are up to something interesting....

[deerslayer]

Congrats Bob! Excited to see you finally announce this. It looks great!

[reconbob]

I did not use the "backwards" firing mechanism at all. I used the special

barrel we have sold for a while now that has a full length obstruction so that

no matter where you cut it you have not opened the bore, but the blast of the

cartridge passes thru to the muzzle.

The rest of it is a variety of obstacles (which you can't see) which prevent the

barreled receiver from being, cut, machined, disassembled, modified, etc. I spent

years improving the design - this approved version is the third one I have sent

them. You can field strip the gun just like an original. The trigger frame is standard

Thompson but as time goes by we will be making all of the parts (we are already

making the trigger frames) because there are not enough original parts left to

sustain production.

 

Bob

[Jeff51]

Bob- Please put my name for one of your weapons. Let me know when in Feb they will be ready. Thia is for one of your blank firing Thompsons. Thanks, Jeff

[Paladin601]

Bob, what about the Magazine, is it a standard magazine? If so then 10 rd mags are needed, correct?

[reconbob]

The pre-production guns use standard Thompson mags. When the gun goes into

mass production it will use a special blank firing only magazine that will not fit a

standard Thompson. This is to enable those in states like NY, CA, MA, etc. to have

a high capacity magazine for the blank gun.

I do not know what you a referring to with the 10-rd. magazine. A 10-rd mag is for

firearms in states which limit the capacity. This is not relevant to the blank gun. If you

live in say, PA there is no ban on magazines. If you live in NY the new mag will not fit

any known firearm and basically be part of a toy, not a gun part.

 

Bob

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

Will you be the only supplier of blanks for the gun?

[reconbob]

The blank is unique to the gun. Because of the all-steel construction and exact

appearance it is inevitable that either on purpose or accidentally someone will try

to fire a live round. So the gun must not chamber or fire standard .45 ACP. This means

it will not chamber a standard .45 ACP blank.

Also, all other guns firing blanks are either full or semi guns converted to fire blanks

by means of a blank adaptor. Because of this very high power blanks are needed.

The Phila Ordnance gun is designed from scratch to fire blanks. As a result the

blank does not have to be anywhere near as powerful as a "standard" .45 ACP

blank. Firing a "standard" .45 ACP blank would damage the gun.

So at this time, yes, Phila Ord is the only manufacturer of the blanks.

 

Bob

[Paul in PA]

Bob,

 

I think the concern, amongst potential buyers, is with the proprietary Philadelphia Ordnance special 45 blanks. If production stops, like in the case of the SS Room or Japanese Blank firing only versions, a buyer would end up with an expensive paperweight. I do not consider 50 cents a round for blanks a bad price these days, given Swanson's or Atlantic Wall prices.

 

I think we all understand the liability of a Blank Only version that could accept real 45 ACP ammunition. But can you share additional information on your blanks?

 

- What will be the donor brass? I assume you will be using a existing caliber's brass to make or reform the brass.

- - Assumption is you will be using standard large pistol primers and commercially available powder.

- Will reloading dies be available? This would allow individuals to make their own. I know liability issues here.

 

As for the use of original Thompson magazines being compatible for the first production run. Will any modifications be required? Like with the Kahr or Auto-Ordnance Semi-Auto versions.

 

Does you design use standard Thompson Lower Receivers? This is really a spare parts question, is the lower based on the actual Thompson lower and are the parts interchangeable? Long term source of spares. I know original Thompson parts are drying up.

 

Thanks in Advance for you answers and extremely interested.

 

Paul

Edited December 26, 2016 by Paul in PA

[thirtyround]

Bob, do you have a cool Video cutting loose with this model!? I'm already fighting my demons on this, wishing you great success.

[reconbob]

If your only thought at this time is that what happens if I go out of business next year and you

can't get blanks then don't buy a gun.

In some such worst case scenario I am sure Atlantic Wall would make the blanks just like they

are making BFONG blanks for the SS Supply Room guns.

The blanks are made from new virgin brass, not remanufactured from 7.62 NATO brass.

it took almost as much time and expense to develop the blank as it did to develop the gun.

The gun was ready over a year ago and it took almost a year and a half to develop a reliable

blank and load. So no, I am not going to give the technical data to anyone. I will manufacture

and sell blanks to my customers at the same or less as Swanson or Atlantic Wall.

 

The pre-production guns use a standard Thompson mag, and actually the entire lower part

of the gun - trigger frame/buttstock is standard Thompson. The trigger frames are made here.

When the gun goes into production quite likely the trigger frames will be non-interchageable

to make the guns eligible for certain markets.

 

Bob

[Paul in PA]

Thanks for the answers Bob. Look forward to seeing it.

 

Paul

[TSMGguy]

Bob,

 

All of your answers above are much appreciated. You put a lot of work into this project, and it shows!

 

My last questions: How easily is the blank gun field stripped and cleaned? As easily as the original? How does one clean the barrel, with its full length gas obstruction? Will the guns provided to the first few purchasers look as nice as the one pictured, that is, with the nice walnut and the very original looking blued finish?

 

Thanks!

 

Howard

[2ndArmored]

Since it's a non-gun, can they be engraved to look historically accurate (as can be done with your 80% receivers)? Or must the "receiver" be left blank, or inscribed with some BATFE-mandated nomenclature?

[R67]

Bob, I think a short video showing a field strip and test firing would answer a lot of questions.

 

Have a great holiday!

[joeww2jeep]

Bob

I like to have my name placed on the List for one of blank firing Thompson

Thanks

Joe D

[reconbob]

The blank gun is a non-firearm so it does not have to have any markings to please the ATF.

I will probably put some type of marking indicating that it is a blank gun to help the cause when

people have to "prove" that they have a blank gun and not a machine gun.

At this time I do not plan on putting "Thompson" on the gun because good old Saelio Enterprises

trademarked the word Thompson for toys. I don't need them in my face.

I will mark the right side Phila Ordnance where it would normally say Auto-Ordnance. If you know

someone who does engraving you can put the original markings on I just can't sell it that way.

 

Bob