Ciener .22 Conversions...
Posted 11 April 2005 - 12:40 PM
Now I just need to build a drum for the 28A1 that will actually work.
Posted 11 April 2005 - 01:16 PM
I've got one in my Uzi from Vector and like it too but my Uzi reciever is registered for 22/45/9mm .
So I'm wondering since my form 4 says that my '28 is only 45 cal and not any other caliber,
is this a gray area or what's the legality of a conversion of a FA weapon registered in only one caliber ?
I'm thinking because it's an insert it's not an issue is that the case ?
Anyone know ?
Oh and is Cieners std conversion kit the thing to buy or should I spring for his delux version ?
Posted 11 April 2005 - 06:12 PM
No problem in converting your TSMG to .22 using the Ceiner conversion, as it is not considered to be a permanant modification. Enjoy!
Posted 11 April 2005 - 06:47 PM
Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:54 PM
Edited by Bill in VA, 11 April 2005 - 07:55 PM.
Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:42 PM
Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:05 PM
Nav4 there is no problem with the conversions as far as the forms go. There are no permanent mods and all the .22 parts are removable.
Phil, we fired 2 bricks through the thing plus a couple hundred rounders. It ran as well at the end as it did at the start. I'll post a report when I get to the 5000rd mark too. As to the inexpensive comment, that was intended to relate to the cost of operating. The kit still costs more than we want to pay. I got the deluxe kit with 2 mags and the cocking handles and barrel nuts for both the 28 and M1 with or without the cutts. I do a little familiarization stuff and letting someone get to know the trigger and the open bolt setup without cutting down the treetops is more than handy. The cost of ammo is low hence the inexpensive comment. I'm not associated with the Ciener bunch and I've had my share of trouble trying to deal with them on the phone. Jonathan needs some lessons in customer service and phone etiquette but in person he is a lot friendlier. I've been chatting with him at the creek for a few years now and only last spring found out it was Ciener. Not what I expected from the phone dealings.
.22 conversions are frequently troublesome. Some guys think they should run all .22 ammo and don't know how to "fiddle" with mechanical things. Like any .22 semi or full they can take time to figure out which ammo works and whether the things need to be oiled, dry or in between etc.... Many of my .22's both machineguns and semi's won't run in the winter due to the wax on the bullets and the already low power of the round itself. I've run Cieners conversions in my AK (semi only) and in my buddies Mini 14 and another friends M16 semi and full. My biggest complaint is that the mags are a pain to load. At least the Tommie conversion doesn't use the mag lip as an ejector. It looks a lot better too since it doesn't have the silly tiny curved mag sticking out.
Hope that answers some questions.
Mike we are on the road again this week but should be back monday night. Maybe the following weekend would be a good time to try the WH setup.
Edited by amafrank, 12 April 2005 - 09:14 PM.
Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:11 PM
I know you have a WH 1928... so the natural question is did you ever try it?
I too was always curious why he said WH's were no suggested for the .22 conversion or you may have problems. Like Bill said - most people with WH 1928's have redone pretty much everything anyway.
Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:12 AM
Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:43 AM
That said, the WH can be brought up to snuff and be as good a shooter as any, with or without a 22 kit.
Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:03 AM
Does anyone know if Ceiner has started to furnish magazines of greater than 10 round capacity? I always thought that 10 rounds was just too little full-auto fire to bother with!
The Vector .22 Uzi conversion is very easy to live with. Mag loading is easy but takes awhile with the 32 round magazines. The rate of fire is VERY fast. There is no recoil or barrel rise. Entire mag dumps go right to the point of aim. Some slight trimming of the ejector was required (instructions furnished by Vector) which doesn't effect 9mm function at all. The bolt is mostly made of aluminum but the surfaces that are likely to wear are of steel. The combo likes Winchester ammunition best and is very light and handy.
Posted 12 April 2005 - 10:26 AM
The magazines I got are 30rdrs. He has them for sale but they are pricey. I noticed in the manual that it lists 30rd (10rd) and 20rd (10rd) mags so it must be leftover from the ban printing...He did tell me that extra 30rd mags were $90. He had a pile of new 30rd mags for the M16 and Mini 14 on the table for $40 ea too. The tommie mags are built inside a standard 30rd mag. One of mine is a seymour and the other I can't remember. Not quite as easy to make as the AR types so I can see a higher price. Still seems a bit high though......
Posted 12 April 2005 - 10:55 AM
Posted 12 April 2005 - 02:58 PM
Posted 12 April 2005 - 03:31 PM
Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:14 PM
And you thought Tommy is expensive! Ha!
(I own a1999 minivan and a Ruger AC-556, and my wife breaks out the carving knife if I so much as read Small Arms review.)
Posted 12 April 2005 - 06:51 PM
After what seemed like a full minute he looked up and said "I don't have time to answer questions now - I'm too busy" (nobody else was anywhere close). "You want a kit, buy one and read the instructions".
No thanks folks. I WILL NOT patronize an asshole!
500 bucks buys a lot of .45 ammo!!
Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:49 PM
I'd have to agree with pretty much all the points you made but as a tinkerer and machinest I don't really notice some of the defects because I'm always fiddling anyway. The ejector is indeed staked in place and after reading your post I'll solder mine. I'm not worried too much about the chamber size as all 3 of my tommies are military. I might have to fix it if it won't fit Mikes WH though. That was a problem I hadn't considered since I haven't had many dealings with the WH's. I didn't see that the bolt was primarily aluminum until I took it apart to clean it today. I had thought it was Delrin or some other plastic. Not sure which would be better really. The plastics might wear better especially on the sear surface. I might just have to make an insert sear surface from steel or something....
The barrel nuts on mine seem to be pretty well made and the knurling is actually nice. Maybe I got lucky or maybe he fixed the machine that makes them. I was thinking that I need to make another one with 1/2-28 threads for a suppressor though.
I had considered the PPS50 drums from Gunparts but they have been out for sometime as far as I know. I have a full auto PPS50 too so I'm not going to destroy any of the ones I have. It might be worth trying to make a few though. I was pretty happy with the rate of fire as it is less the the PPS by a long shot though more than my AK trainer. After a mag or two I was able to fire singles and doubles without jerking the thing around. I'm still amazed at the accuracy of the thing and the little hammer setup is very cute.
I know that lathes, mills and welders are not as common in the average home garage as refrigerators and TV's. Some of us that are lucky enough to have and use these machines sometimes forget that not everyone is so inclined. I think I also take for granted that every gun I get will need some tweaking at the minimum and maybe a complete rebuild as I mostly deal with ancient machineguns and cannons. I agree with you that this shouldn't be so with new ones and Ciener should take care of his customers if he expects them to continue supporting him. Some of the points you made could easily be taken care of with a line of code in the CNC machinery and wouldn't cost any more to produce. I don't know how to get him to do it though....