53 replies to this topic

[rpbcps]

The British War Office produced a set of training pamphlets during the 1930’s to cover all the weapons that were then in use, including the Rifle (Pamphlet 3), Lewis machine gun (Pamphlet 20), grenades (Pamphlet 13), mortars (Pamphlet 9), and other personnel & support weapons. There are also instructions on application of fire (Pamphlet 2) and range courses (Pamphlet 18) and other subjects included in the SAT Volume 1. These were updated when necessary with new editions being issued and new training pamphlets produced, when new weapons became available to the British Army.

 SAT Vl 1.jpg   117.86K   10 downloads    No.3 Rifle.JPG   38.86K   11 downloads    Vol1 Pamphlet 18.JPG   45.67K   16 downloads   Sat 18 Range Course War P45.JPG   50.16K   18 downloads

 

With the purchase of the Thompson submachine gun in 1940, the British War Office issued Pamphlet 21, titled “Thompson Sub-machine-gun” to Volume 1 of the Small Arms training series. To my knowledge, two versions of the 1940 dated manual exists, one printed in 1940 and the second in 1941 with minor changes and both versions in my collection were printed by William Clowes & Sons Ltd. 

The 1^st issue had six pages, and an additional four pages, each containing one photo of the Thompson, which are wrapped around the pamphlet, like the M1 additions in the 1940 AOC Model of 1928 Handbooks, at the front and rear of the pamphlet. 

 SAT 21 1940 V1.JPG   28.29K   27 downloads    Sat 21 1940 V1 P6.JPG   59.85K   25 downloads    SAT 21 1940 V1 Photo.JPG   66.39K   26 downloads

 

The 2^nd 1941 issue of the 1940 dated Pamphlet also has six pages, but final page is printed on the rear cover, and the additional four pages, with the four same photos as the 1^st issue, are added to the centre of the pamphlet. In the photos in both issues the demonstrator is wearing a uniform similar to those worn in WW1 with high puttees and flat cap. The Thompson in the photos is also a Colt era example, as can be identified by the markings on the receiver. The distribution list of pamphlets remained the same for both versions, but the card cover is absent from the 2^nd version printed in 1941, which has a paper cover, indicating that war time shortages were already making an impact. The 2^nd version also includes two separately printed amendments dated 1941.

 SAT21 1940 V2.JPG   26.44K   21 downloads    SAT21 1940 Printed Jan 41 Rear Cover.JPG   51.69K   7 downloads    SAT 21 1940 V2 Page 2.JPG   66.99K   20 downloads    Sat 21 1940 V2 Photos.JPG   80.04K   22 downloads   SAT 21 1940 V2 1941 Annex.JPG   119.51K   21 downloads

 

Added on the 17.02.18

 

All three variations of the 1940 edition of SAT 41 in my collection, including the Australian edition, mention in Lesson 1.- Loading and Unloading, the list of stores includes ‘gun chest complete’.

http://www.machinegu...topic=11386&hl=

 

When the British placed their initial orders for Thompson submachine guns in 1940, it was planned these would be distributed as unit weapons, such as Vickers machine guns, Lewis and Bren light machine gun. All unit weapons were stored in a transit chest, as they are nobody's personal responsibility and were issued to whomever ‘signs for them’, from the units armoury, with a set of ancillaries, (magazines, cleaning rod/kit, spares), which were required for the weapons.

 

In June 1941, the decision was taken that the Thompson would be issued as a personal weapon and therefore the chests were no longer required and this is reflected in Amendment No.2 dated 8^th October 1941, as shown above, which amends the list of stores and the ‘gun chest complete’ is removed.

 

 Transit chest enlarged.JPG   21.3K   9 downloads

 

The same amendment also has a note on the drilling of a hole in the buffer rods, to “enable the use of a nail for replacing the recoil spring”. Indicating the buffer rods in the Model of 1928’s received prior to that date, did not have the hole for aiding stripping of the recoil spring and the reference to the nail would indicate the recoil spring tools had not been introduced in late 1941.

 

 Buffer Hole enlarged.JPG   51.87K   7 downloads

 

In 1942 a new edition was issued with the title changed to “The Thompson Machine Carbine”, which had a total of 12 pages, including the appendix concerning the attachment of a spotlight projector to the Thompson on pages 11 & 12.

 SAT 21 1942 b.JPG   36.32K   9 downloads    SAT 21 1942 P10&11.JPG   84.43K   20 downloads

 

The only magazine mentioned in this edition is the 20 round magazine, there is no mention of the ‘L’ Drum in the 1942 edition, indicating the British forces were or had withdrawn the ‘L’ Drum from service. The photos in the 1940 edition, have been replaced with line drawings in the 1942 edition. The 1942 edition was printed by Keliher, Hudson & Kearns Ltd, as were the 1944 editions version in my collection.

It is interesting to note that the Thompson gun in all line drawings in this edition, does not have a compensator, apart from the final drawing in the appendix showing the fitting of the spotlight projector. Tom Davis Jr. provides details on the Model of 1928s bought by the British without compensators in his book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story. 

http://www.machinegu...my +gun +story.

 SAT 21 1942 page 2&3.JPG   110.72K   19 downloads   SAT 21 1942 P1.JPG   90.81K   18 downloads  SAT 21 1942 P4&5.JPG   106.77K   17 downloads 

Added on the 27.05.18 with photos

Another example of the 1942 pamphlet I came across recently is  an example of a SAT 21 1942, which had the cover printed in black, not in the usual red and also the printers details were missing from the front cover, something I had not seen before. When it arrived the printers details are actually on the rear cover, "Printed by the Printing and Stationary Service, M.E.F."

 SAT21 1942 MEF Cover 1.JPG   50.45K   5 downloads    SAT21 1942 MEF Rear Cover 1.JPG   24.69K   5 downloads

​From an internet search, I discovered "M.E.F is the acronym for 'Middle East Forces', and the Printing and Stationary Service was based in Cairo, Egypt, so a nice addition to the collection.

In 1942, with the introduction of the Sten SMG, Pamphlet 22 was also issued titled “Sten Machine Carbine”.

 Sten Pamphlet 22 1942.JPG   52.91K   15 downloads

Two years later in 1944 saw the introduction of a new edition of Pamphlet 21 titled “The Machine Carbine”. This covered both the Thompson and Sten SMGs in the same pamphlet and also added is an amendment to cover the use of the Thompson M1 So there are additional pages in this version with appendices A through to D.

 Sat 21 1944 Cover.JPG   62.46K   15 downloads    Sat 21 1944 Page 1.JPG   105.3K   17 downloads

This edition also returned to using photos, updated from those in the 1940 edition of the pamphlet. I have two copies of this edition, both identical although one was printed in 1944 and one in 1945. The 1945 issue has had numerous amendments added to it, by the user, including an extra page dated August 1946, with Appendices E & F, but all for the Sten gun, not for the Thompson.

 Sat 21 1944 P2&3.JPG   100.04K   16 downloads   Sat 21 1944 P28 & Annex.JPG   116.06K   17 downloads

In my 1955 reprint of the 1944 edition of Pamphlet 21, there is a total of 29 pages with appendices, A through to F, printed in it.

 Sat 21 1944 reprint 1955.JPG   45.06K   18 downloads   Sat 21 1944 reprint 55 P1.JPG   81.6K   21 downloads   Sat 21 1944 reprint 55 Photos.JPG   46.55K   22 downloads

On the first page of all three versions of the 1944 Edition, there is a photo of a Model of 1928, without a compensator, with the British / Commonwealth sling fitting modification.

Added on the 01.02.19 with photos

Another edition of the 1944 dated pamphlet was printed at the Middle East Forces printing and stationary service based in Cairo, Egypt. The contents are identical to the other 1944 editions in my collection with appendices A through to D.

 MEF 1944.JPG   38.81K   8 downloads    MEF 1944 rear cover.JPG   27.47K   4 downloads

At the same time the British War Office was issuing Pamphlet 21, other commonwealth countries were issuing their versions. Canada’s mirrored the British editions of Pamphlet 21 in 1940, 1942 and 1944, with only having slight differences on the front covers from the British editions. 

 Canadian SAT Vol 1 Pam 21 1942.JPG   102.55K   16 downloads   Canadian SAT21 1942 P4&5.JPG   67.63K   11 downloads   Canadian Sat 21 1944.JPG   46.31K   10 downloads   Canadian Sat 21 1944 P1.JPG   79.33K   9 downloads   Canadian Sat 21 1944 M1 Appendix.JPG   107.28K   8 downloads

In 1944 they also issued a further bilingual edition of pamphlet 21 and this, as with the previous pamphlets, was printed by Edward Cloutier in Ottawa. The bilingual edition also reproduced all the photographs in the pamphlet twice, one with English and one with French titles under them. 

 Canadian Sat 21 1944 Bilingual.JPG   57.16K   10 downloads  Canadian Sat 21 1944 Bilingual P8&9.JPG   90.44K   10 downloads   Canadian Sat 21 1944 Bilingual P14&15.JPG   84.11K   14 downloads

Added on the 01.02.19 with photos

The Canadian English language only edition of the 1944 dated pamphlet, was reprinted in 1945 and again in 1948 according to the example below. 

 Canadian SAT21 1944 Reprint 48.JPG   28.82K   2 downloads     Canadian SAT21 1944 reprint 48 rear.JPG   21.48K   3 downloads

 

Added on the 17.02.18 with photos

Australia also issued an edition of the 1940 issued Pamphlet 21, with the wording “Amendment 1 embodied in this reprint" printed on the front cover below the date. On the bottom of the front cover is printed "Reprinted at Victoria Railway Printing Works North Melbourne", and the date of printing was 1941.

 Australian 1940 SAT 21.JPG   45.56K   7 downloads 

The Australian edition also has a much larger distribution list located on both the front and rear inside cover and also part of the outside rear cover, much larger than the British distribution,which maybe indicated the first larger orders from the USA had been fulfilled.:

   Australian 1940 SAT 21 Dist 1.JPG   92.59K   7 downloads    Australian 1940 SAT 21 Dist 2.JPG   70.01K   4 downloads     Australian 1940 SAT 21 Rear cover Dist..JPG   38.1K   4 downloads

The Australian edition unlike the Canadian version, does not mirror the British version, it has 16 pages more than the British version, including pages with photographs.

On the bottom right of the front cover of the Australian edition it is printed  ‘5321-41’, and has ‘Amendment No.1’  dated 20th June 1941, as shown above, embodied in the reprint, that would indicate it was printed during the 2nd half of 1941.

 

 Aussie 1940 ammend V1.JPG   29.41K   2 downloads

 

The first six pages of the Australian SAT 21 are the same as the amemended pages in the British edition.   Page 7 has the addition of Appendix ‘A’, Description of the Gun and Components; on page 13 has Appendix ‘B’, Action of Mechanism and on page 16 is Appendix ‘C’, Directions for detail stripping and assembling.

 

 Australian 1940 SAT 21 Appendix A.JPG   89.96K   1 downloads    Australian 1940 SAT 21 Appendix B.JPG   84.75K   1 downloads    Australian 1940 SAT 21 Appendix C.JPG   101.77K   1 downloads

 

In appendix ‘C’, although there is no mention of the use of a tool for removing the recoil spring, on page 19 where it states; “compress as much as possible of the recoil spring on the buffer rod and insert the point of a pin punch through the underside of the hole in the end of the buffer rod to retain compression”.

 

 P19 enlarged.JPG   49.08K   8 downloads

So it appears that that the Australians were not using Recoil Spring tools at the time

 

The photographs in the Australian version are different for the British editions with three pages showing the detailed components, (parts), of the Model of 1928 and the demonstrator of the weapon is also wearing an Australian military uniform.  

 

 Australian 1940 SAT 21011.jpg   77.45K   13 downloads    Australian 1940 SAT 21 Components.JPG   64.82K   14 downloads 

 

In 1943, the Australians issued a pamphlet 15 titled “Sub-machine guns”, which combined the Austen, Owen and Thompson Model of 1928. Interestingly enough, although the British 1942 edition of Pamphlet 21, did not mention the ‘L’ drum, the Australian pamphlet 15 still includes reference to the ‘L’ Drum in it. 

 

 Australian SAT 15.JPG   46.18K   5 downloads

 

As I have found British, Canadian and Australian editions of the Small arms training pamphlet 21, I presumed other Commonwealth countries would have their own versions, but up until I was writing this post, I had been unable to find any photos or reference to any pamphlets produced by New Zealand or South Africa. David Albert did tell me in reply to a question I asked, and I quote “I have never seen a South African version, but there are NZ versions...1942 and 1944, if I recall correctly”. He added they were featured in a TCA newsletter, probably about 8 years ago.”

 

So in the interests of my research, perhaps someone could be so kind to assist me with a scanned copy of the TCA newsletter that featured the NZ versions of Pamphlet 21, I would be grateful.

 

In a search on the forum, while writing this post, I did discover an old post from 2006 concerning David’s book, “Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, and Other Paper Items”. In a reply from Forum member Murray from New Zealand, there is picture of a New Zealand 1942 version of the “Thompson Machine Carbine” Pamphlet, so I have discovered evidence of its existence. The NZ 1942 Pamphlet 21 has printed on its cover: “This Pamphlet supersedes the 1940 edition”, so I guess the earlier edition also exists. 

 

​Added on the 16.02.18: David Albert answered my request above and forwarded me a couple of photos of the NZ SAT 21's to add to the post, see below:

 NZ SAT 21 1940.JPG   56.86K   14 downloads   NZ SAT 21 1942.JPG   42.19K   10 downloads  NZ SATs Inside Covers.JPG   54.8K   10 downloads

 

Added on the 25.03.19 with photo:

A few weeks ago I had a break through in my search for a South African Small Arms Training Pamphlet 21, issued by the Union of South Africa, dated 1944 and titled “The Machine Carbine”, which like the British version, covers both the Thompson and STEN SMGs. Apart from the front cover, the South African version is identical to the British version for the same year.

 USA SAT21 1944.JPG   50.02K   1 downloads

 

The front cover also states "This pamphlet supersedes the SAT Vol. 1 Pamphlets No. 21 and No.22 1942", so there are more out there to find.

 

Added on the 27.05.18 with photos

Another item I discovered recently is SAT Vol 1 Pamphlet No. 11 (India) 'Close Quarter Battle' dated 1945. On the inside front cover it states: "This pamphlet supersedes the following:  SAT 11 Pistol 1942, SAT 21 Thompson Machine Carbine 1944 and SAT 22 Sten Machine Carbine 1944".

 SAT11 1945 (India) Cover 1.JPG   50.8K   7 downloads   SAT11 1945 (India) Supersedes 1.JPG   50.71K   6 downloads  

So this 1945 dated SAT covers all three weapons, something else I did not know existed and now I've finally own an Indian Army SAT with a nice line drawing of what appears to be a Gurkha. On page 68 of this pamphlet, it has two line drawings, one of the Model of 1928 (A1) and the second Model M1. However, they refer to the Thompsons in the line drawings, as the old and new models, not by their Models.

 SAT11 1945 (India) Page 88 1.JPG   61.18K   4 downloads

Although not a commonwealth country, there was also an Italian version of the manual produced in 1944. I have never seen a copy of the Italian manual, there is a reference to it in David Alberts 2005 post:

http://www.machinegu...wtopic=5455&hl=

 

And it is also in 'Roland the Thompsongunners' 2017 post:

http://www.machinegu...italian +manual

 

From the images of the Italian Thompson gun manuals in the posts,  they appear to be exact copies of those in the 1942 British Pamphlet 21 dated 19, indicating it is a translated copy of that pamphlet. The photos in David’s reply to the above post also indicate this was the case.

 

In the photos in the post, on the cover we see a reference to pamphlet 21 in the top right hand corner “Fascicola 21” translates to ‘Manual 21’ and the cover title is printed: 

 

Addestramento Armi Portatili

 

Volume 1

Moschetto Automatico Thompson

 

1942

Which translates as:

Small Arms Training

 

Volume 1

Thompson Machine Carbine

 

1942

 

So there is reference, not only to ‘Pamphlet 21’ and ‘Volume 1’ but also 1942, and two of the three Italian Thompson gun manuals shown in Toms post, also have the word ‘ristampo’ printed under ‘1942’, which translates to ‘reprint’. Two of the Italian manuals are dated 1945 and one 1944 and all three copies have ‘Traduzione dall inglese’, printed on their covers, which is easy to work out, translates to ‘translation from English’.

 

Mind you, Roland states it has 22 pages and the 1942 British pamphlet only has 11 pages.

 

​Added on the 16.02.18: David Albert was good enough to let me have some photos of the Italian Thompson manual to add to this post, and also informed me, he is aware of four versions of the Italian 'Moschetto Automatico Thompson' manual and a fifth variation which features both the Thompson and the Bren Gun, see below:

 

 Italian handbook 2.jpg   106.13K   7 downloads  Italian Pam 21.JPG   34.85K   4 downloads  Page 4 Italian Manual.jpg   165.14K   4 downloads  Page 6 Italian Manual.jpg   132.44K   3 downloads   Page 11 Italian Manual.jpg   125.94K   4 downloads   Page 22 Italian Manual.jpg   144.97K   3 downloads

 

​And the front cover of the Italian Manual covering both the Thompson and the Bren:

 Italian_TSMG_Bren.jpg   62.17K   4 downloads

 

Added on the 20.03.19: A fellow Thompson Enthusiast, who is selling his collection, recently asked me if I had seen the SAT Pamphlet 21 in Hebrew, which I had not, indeed I did not even know they existed. Long story short, I ended up 'mortgaging my first born', so I could get my hands on the two pamphlets in question.

Taken into consideration the dates on the two pamphlets, they would have been published prior to the creation of the State of Israel. The first, published in 1942, reproduces some of the line drawings of the TSMG, found in the British SAT 21 of the same year, including attaching the spotlight projector to the weapon. The cover also has reference to SAT 21 in the title.
 Hebrew SAT 21 1942.JPG   38.88K   1 downloads  Hebrew 42b.JPG   123.89K   1 downloads
Hebrew reads like Arabic, I discovered, reading right to left and the back to front! A fellow member on the forum advised me: "Like English, Hebrew has consonants and vowels. For simplicity, Hebrew words are often printed without the latter, (e.g. on buses and street signs). Fluent/native readers can still understand the words", but unfortunately our colleague is neither fluent or a native reader of Hebrew!
So, it has taken me some time to translate some of the cover, done with the aid of Google translate.

SMALL ARMS TRAINING
VOLUME 1 PAMPHLET 21

THOMPSON MACHINE CARBINE
1942
SECOND EDTION

A PAMPHLET FOR SHOOTERS

Notary Publishing
Cheshin

The words in red are the ones that I am unsure have been translated correctly, perhaps someone out there can confirm and / or correct them, see scans of cover in Hebrew?
The second was originally published in 1946, although it was reprinted in 1948, and not only covers the Thompson, but also the Sten, Suomi ad Schmeisser.
 SAT 21 1946 Hebrew.JPG   26.66K   1 downloads  Hebrew Sat 21 1946 Inside.JPG   43.44K   0 downloads
Once again, the cover translation appears to also have reference to SAT 21 in the title. Again using google, this is what I was able to translate:

SMALL ARMS TRAINING
Volume 1 pamphlet No. 21

SUBMACHNE GUNS STEN
THOMPSON, SUOMI, SCHMEISSER>
SHAMELESSLY?

1946
SECOND EDITION

From Mekleh
Tammuz 5768 22 July 1948

As before, the words that I am unsure have been translated correctly, as they make no sense to me, have been left in red. Perhaps someone out there can confirm and / or correct them?

So, as the collection grows, I still have gaps to fill including the Italian versions of SAT 21, the 1940 edition of the Canadian SAT 21, and all editions of the Indian & New Zealand SAT 21s.

Edited by rpbcps, 25 March 2019 - 04:13 PM.

[TD.]

This is a very informative post. Thank you for compiling this information into an easy to read and review format. This post needs to be in the pinned reference section. 

 

I have pictures of some of the items you are looking for. PM me your e-mail address. 

 

Thanks again!

[rpbcps]

This is a very informative post. Thank you for compiling this information into an easy to read and review format. This post needs to be in the pinned reference section. 

 

I have pictures of some of the items you are looking for. PM me your e-mail address. 

 

Thanks again!

 

Tom,

PM sent and thanks for your kind words.

 

David Albert encouraged me to put this post together.

Stay safe

 

Richard

[giantpanda4]

This should definitely go into the pinned FAQ type post on Thompson paper! Great post!

[dalbert]

I'll get this added to the reference pinned post.

I have two different India SAT 21's, and I believe I have 4 different Italian versions, although the differences are very slight. I also have the Australian Pamphlet #15, and all the Canadian ones, except for the bilingual version. I can look for the TCA Newsletter, unless someone else finds it first...

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[rpbcps]

I'll get this added to the reference pinned post.

I have two different India SAT 21's, and I believe I have 4 different Italian versions, although the differences are very slight. I also have the Australian Pamphlet #15, and all the Canadian ones, except for the bilingual version. I can look for the TCA Newsletter, unless someone else finds it first...

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

Wow, two different Indian SAT21's, they must be as rare as 'rockin horse poop'.

 

It would be good to add those SAT 21's (&15) to complete the missing details to this post, it would improve its reference value for the future. I did find some examples in different posts on the forum, but did not want to be accused of stealing 'intellectual property', or what ever they call it 

 

Stay safe

Richard

Edited by rpbcps, 08 February 2018 - 03:46 PM.

[Mk VII]

Most of the English editions can still be obtained without too much difficulty, but the 1955 reprint is scarce - I have never seen one.  It was still labelled as being in the Small Arms Training series, despite being packaged in the same blue card covers as the post-war Infantry Training series which replaced the SATs.
 
Those familiar with Bisley Camp will recognise the Army Target Shooting Club building in the background, with the 'subject' standing on the motor track which goes past the Sit Perpetuum hut and the Marylebone R & P C clubhouse.
 
Although the SAT series was labelled as Volume I, there never was a Volume II. The 'odd man out' was Small Arms Ranges - Layout, Safety and Equipment (1945) which was packaged as 'Volume V, War Supplement' to jive with Volume Five of Small Arms Training, 1931, the only part of this book which remained in force through most of the war and which dealt with range construction and safety templates.  The peacetime safety regulations had to be placed in abeyance for much of the war to permit enough ranges to be constructed for the greatly expanded military. 

Edited by Mk VII, 08 February 2018 - 03:38 PM.

[rpbcps]

Most of the English editions can still be obtained without too much difficulty, but the 1955 reprint is scarce - I have never seen one.  It was still labelled as being in the Small Arms Training series, despite being packaged in the same blue card covers as the post-war Infantry Training series which replaced the SATs.
 
Those familiar with Bisley Camp will recognise the Army Target Shooting Club building in the background, with the 'subject' standing on the motor track which goes past the Sit Perpetuum hut and the Marylebone R & P C clubhouse.
 
Although the SAT series was labelled as Volume I, there never was a Volume II. The 'odd man out' was Small Arms Ranges - Layout, Safety and Equipment (1945) which was packaged as 'Volume V, War Supplement' to jive with Volume Five of Small Arms Training, 1931, the only part of this book which remained in force through most of the war and which dealt with range construction and safety templates.  The peacetime safety regulations had to be placed in abeyance for much of the war to permit enough ranges to be constructed for the greatly expanded military. 

 

Out of the British SAT pamphlets, believe it or not, it was the 1942 edition which proved the most elusive to find, for me. I eventually bought a complete Volume 1 set  to get pamphlet 21, and sat on the set for almost a year. Only last month I was offered £50 for it, without pamphlet 21, so sold it on and I reinvested that money in the Australian 1940 edition and a copy of the 1940 AOC Handbook with the over stamped 'Model M1'.

 

That information on the other volumes, or lack of them, is interesting, I was wondering about that as you never see any for sale.

 

Thanks

Richard

[dalbert]

 

The first two are India versions from 1940 and 1942, followed by the Australia 1943 Pamphlet No. 15, and on the bottom are the 3 Canadian versions of SAT No. 21, dated 1940, 1942, and 1944.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Taliaferro]

There is also a British Naval manual that copies the Pamphlet 21. Images attached.

Attached Files

•  br247 copy 2.jpg   74.79K   1 downloads

[rpbcps]

There is also a British Naval manual that copies the Pamphlet 21. Images attached.

 

Now that is a new one to me, another to find, the quest certainly continues  

 

Thank you for posting that.

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

[Taliaferro]

I will try to get additional scans and post it. 

 

There is also the Home Guard manuals that are patterned after the 21.

[rpbcps]

I will try to get additional scans and post it. 

 

There is also the Home Guard manuals that are patterned after the 21.

 

Well, why not post them too, make this post the most comprehensive source of what is out there for everyone?

[rpbcps]

Initial post edited, I forgot to mention the lack of compensator in the line drawings found in the 1942 edition and on the Model of 1928, in the first photo in all the 1944 editions, including the Canadian editions, see respective pages in attached scans.

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

[Taliaferro]

Ok here is a better look at the BR 247 and the Home Guard manual that is similar to Pam. 21

 

BR247 is 6 pages with two line drawings of saliors

 

 cover.jpg   110.13K   6 downloads  cen.jpg   185.28K   7 downloads  back.jpg   194.51K   8 downloads

 

Northumberland HG is 6 PP no art and no printing names or numbers.

 

 hg copy.jpg   255.62K   5 downloads  p1.jpg   202.01K   5 downloads

[rpbcps]

No.1 Company 3rd Battalion Northumberland Home guards, the county I was born in.

 

​Attached are some Home Guard photos

 

 Hertfordshire Home Guard.JPG   78.17K   28 downloads    HG River Patrol.JPG   95.6K   28 downloads    HG TSMG.JPG   69.03K   28 downloads

 

​Stay safe

 

Richard

Edited by rpbcps, 30 December 2018 - 04:04 PM.

[AlanDavid]

Great post Richard!

 

The photo of the group of HG, is interesting in that it shows a Thompson a BAR and two modified Model 1917 rifles for grenade launching; these were far more extensively issued than most people realize.

 

Regards

 

AlanD

Sydney 

[dalbert]

This thread has been added to the reference pinned post...

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[rpbcps]

As part of my collection I have two other British commercially produced Thompson Submachine gun Manuals, which were well circulated during WW2, one of which you'll all be familiar with, as David Albert uses it as his Avatar, "Know your Weapons No.1 - Tommy Gun Rifle and Bayonet", published by Nicholson & Watson. The second book is "The Thompson Submachine gun Mechanism made Easy" published by Gale & Polden.

 

In my collection I have two variations of the "Know your Weapons: No.1", both versions have the same date in them, First Published September 1941, so there is no way of knowing which was the first edition. However, although the contents of both editions are the same, but in one, pages have been reduced, by removing the first title pages and changing the font, so they can fit more words on a page. So I guess, like the 2nd version of the 1940 edition of the Small Arms training Pamphlet 21, war time shortages were impacting the printing of the pamphlets / Manuals, resulting in editing to save paper.

 

 Tommy Gun V2 cover.JPG   48.36K   2 downloads   Tommy Gun V2 Title.JPG   33.13K   2 downloads   Tommy Gun V2 Title Page.JPG   44.35K   2 downloads   Tommy Gun V2 Contents.JPG   48.23K   3 downloads   Tommy Gun V2 Part 1 & Hand written notes.JPG   90.99K   2 downloads

 

I love the versions with hand written notes it adds character to them.

 

The 2nd version with less pages and change in font:

 

 Tommy Gun V1 cover.JPG   53.4K   3 downloads    Tommy Gun V1 Inside Title.JPG   59.74K   1 downloads    Tommy Gun V1 Contents.JPG   60.61K   1 downloads   Tommy Gun V1 Part 1.JPG   77.07K   0 downloads

 

The Ultimate Thompson Book also shows a picture of the cover of an Australian / New Zealand version of the Nicholson & Watson book, published by Whitcombe & Tombs Limited, on page 681.

 

It is always amazng what you can find in searches of old posts on the forum and the other night I found a post  entitle 'Thompson "paper" On Ebay....' started by john on the 5th Sept. 2005. The last post in the thread was by David Albert and I was interested to read the following:

 

“At the TCA show, I purchased yet another version of that manual that was printed in New Zealand. It looks very similar in color to yours, and was printed by Whitcombe and Tombs Limited in cooperation with Nicholson & Watson, who was the publisher of your version in London. This new version I found is part of a different series of manuals, and is labelled "Military Manual No. 12" instead of "Know Your Weapons: No. 1." It is 59 pages long, compared to the 48 and 63 page versions of the N&W manuals. Some day, I will compare them all side by side to see what the major differences are.”

 

Here is the picture copied from that post:

 

 NZ Version.JPG   35.65K   1 downloads

 

David informs me there are in fact four different versions of the Tommy Gun Manual.

 

Like the Nicholson & Watson book, the Gale & Polden Thompson gun editions are not individually dated to work out when they were published, but one version in my collection has less photos in it. One version has 14 photographic plates and the other 17,  with some of the photos being changed between versions and the publishers foreword changing.

 

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Cover.JPG   54.02K   3 downloads    Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Inside cover.JPG   91.4K   3 downloads  Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Foreword & Contents.JPG   62.15K   5 downloads  Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Firing from Shoulder.JPG   73.57K   5 downloads    Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Loading.JPG   112.39K   7 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Firing from Shoulder2.JPG   105.44K   7 downloads

 

In this version this firing position is referred to as firing from the hip. In the 2nd version, with different photo, it is referred to firing from the waist.

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Firing from Hip.JPG   104.48K   7 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V2 Firing from Hip front.JPG   100.56K   5 downloads

 

The second version with 17 Photographic plates:

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 cover.JPG   33.97K   4 downloads    Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Inside cover.JPG   87.84K   4 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Foreword & Contents.JPG   62.15K   3 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Firing from Shoulder.JPG   111.7K   3 downloads 

 

The second version has two additional pages entitled The Use of the Cocking Handle in Aiming with a line drawing of a German Paratrooper in the sights.

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Aiming centre pages.JPG   98.1K   4 downloads

 

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Loading.JPG   135.08K   5 downloads

Firing from the 'waist', rather than the 'Hip'

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Firing from Waist.JPG   104.79K   6 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 Firing from Shoulder2.JPG   114.3K   6 downloads  Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V1 rear inside cover.JPG   86.47K   5 downloads

 

The third version of the Gale & Polden book in my collection, is identical to the 2nd version with 17 photographic plates, but the books listed for sale in the front and rear covers are different, indicating another printing at least of the same publication.

 

 Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V3 Cover booklist.JPG   88.44K   3 downloads   Thompson SMG Mechanism made Easy V3 Rear Cover booklist.JPG   83.86K   5 downloads

 

Added on the 30.01.20: 

Our new board member, John Dillinger, has been kind enough to inform me that there is a fourth version of the Gale & Polden booklet, which is dated 1942, on the foot of the last page. I don't have a copy myself, so at the moment I am unable to confirm if that is the only difference, although I noted that this version also has 17 photographic plates.

 G&P 1942 and advert.jpg   132.85K   0 downloads    G&P 1942.jpg   93K   0 downloads

 

Added on the 30.12.18: Another nice addition for my collection is a sales flyer for the Gale & Polden book:

 P1120868.JPG   158K   1 downloads  P1120867.JPG   157K   1 downloads

 

All versions of the Gale & Polden and the Nicholson & Watson books show pictures and discuss the use of the British Recoil Spring Stripping tool

Gale & Polden, item 24 on page 11:

 G&P Stripping tool.JPG   113.89K   4 downloads    G&P Stripping tool 2.JPG   87.25K   4 downloads

 

Nicholson & Watson:

 N&W Stripping tool.JPG   70.83K   7 downloads

 

On Page 25 of the Gale & Polden book with 14 photographic plates and page 27 of the versions with 17 photographic plates, there is a doctored photo of Colt Thompson Model of 1921 (8) SN 3386, which according to Volume 1 of Gordon Herigstads 2 volume book set, became a 'star'. It was not only is it featured in the Gale & Polden books, but was also featured in the "Army Services Forces Catalog  ORD 9, (Standard Nomenclature List A-32), 1943 and in Tracie Hills book "Thompson: The American Legend". According to the entry in Gordons book, 3386 was once owned by the Movie property supplier, Bapty & Company of London, like another example in my collection, so it has also probably been a 'star of the silver screen' in its lifetime. It was later deactivated and sold in the UK, so one to look out for to add to my collection, if it ever comes up on the market.

 

 Mechanism Made easy Colt.JPG   113.21K   5 downloads

Edited by rpbcps, 30 January 2020 - 04:16 AM.

[TD.]

Shown below is an inside look of from an India 1940 SAT Pamphlet 21:

 

 SAT TSMG 1940 India 1.JPG   64.83K   6 downloads       SAT TSMG 1940 India 2.JPG   44.08K   7 downloads

 

 SAT TSMG 1940 India 3.JPG   79.54K   7 downloads       SAT TSMG 1940 India 4.JPG   56.26K   7 downloads