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Ammo question - power ranking of .45 ACP Ball


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#1 reconbob

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:34 PM

     Hey Guys - I figured I'd run this by you all since there is a vast wealth of experience on this forum.

 

       The standard ammo we use here for testing guns is currently, and has been for years, Federal American

Eagle 230 grain copper jacketed ball ammo. I would estimate that I have fired/test fired close to 300 Thompsons.

 

    Its been over a year since the last one but I have in the shop now a gun for which the Federal ammo

does not provide enough power. The symptom is short recoil. Either the bolt does not recoil back far

enough to be held by the sear on semi, or the bolt does not recoil far enough to pick up the next round in the mag.

 

    When this happens I switch to Israeli Military Industries 230 grain ball ammo and in all circumstances

so far a gun that will not work with Federal will work with IMI. I consider IMI to be the hottest .45 ACP load

available. Its a very fine line because the IMI ammo is not considered to be a "magnum" loading.

 

    I am looking for similar experiences you may have had. I am not intending this to be a poll of what is the

most popular ammo. I am looking for examples where a gun was under powered with ammo "A" but worked

fine with ammo "B".

 

Many Thanks in advance

 

Bob/Phila Ordnance


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#2 StrangeRanger

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:03 PM

I've read other complaints about the power level of current manufacture Fed Eagle ammo so I'm guessing that the issue is probably the ammo not the TSMG.  My M1 is omnivorous.  It digests Blazer Brass, Winchester, Remington without a hiccup.  I get an occasional problem with my handloads not feeding properly but no short stroke issues.

 

FWIW my S&W76 clone came with two springs.  With the "heavy" spring and Magtech and sometimes Remington ammo it was failing to eject the empties, they'd sometimes end up backwards in the port.  No such problem with Winchester or Blazer Brass.  Swapped to the "light" spring and it runs 100% with everything I've tried in it. 

 

So does the problem Thompson have a stock recoil spring? A Wolff? Or something else?


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#3 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:05 PM

I only have a small sampling.  When I had a '28 Navy that had a well used recoil spring, the Federal AE 230 gr FMJ and TMJ (I was trying to keep the compensator lead free) worked very well.  Winchester 230 FMJ 230 gr was not quite as robust (and was much more dirty), but always functioned with good ejection. And Remington UMC 230 FMJ 230 gr was still functional, but the ejection was weak - only a couple of feet from the gun.  For the last several years, I've only used Federal AE 230 gr FMJ.

 

FWIW, shooting .45 ACP in my full size, full auto Uzi gave about the same results.  ETA: That's with using the same recoil spring that I use with a 9mm bolt/barrel combo.


Edited by Merry Ploughboy, 01 December 2019 - 08:07 PM.

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#4 giantpanda4

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:31 AM

Bob, Win white box seems to be a weak ammo for my shooter gun. When it jams, if there is not time to clean it, I use S&B and works fine. S&B does seem hotter - I prefer it when I have it. 

I quit using Federal when I found a new box with a cartridge with the primer inserted backwards...


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#5 TSMGguy

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:50 AM

The best .45 M1911 ball ammo I've ever shot is still the 1942 Russian repacked stuff that was sold in unopened Spam cans years ago. It's clean, consistent, and slightly hotter than the stuff generally loaded to SAMI standards by American companies today. Wish I new exactly how the 1942 ammo was loaded, powder wise. Wish also that it was still available as I'm down to my last couple of cans. My TSMGs purr when using it. 


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#6 lightguy

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:44 PM

I've read other complaints about the power level of current manufacture Fed Eagle ammo so I'm guessing that the issue is probably the ammo not the TSMG.  My M1 is omnivorous.  It digests Blazer Brass, Winchester, Remington without a hiccup.  I get an occasional problem with my handloads not feeding properly but no short stroke issues.

 

FWIW my S&W76 clone came with two springs.  With the "heavy" spring and Magtech and sometimes Remington ammo it was failing to eject the empties, they'd sometimes end up backwards in the port.  No such problem with Winchester or Blazer Brass.  Swapped to the "light" spring and it runs 100% with everything I've tried in it. 

 

So does the problem Thompson have a stock recoil spring? A Wolff? Or something else?

Interesting about the S+W 76.

I have one that runs horribly on most ammo.

Only +P stuff works reliably in it.
Never knew about the second spring option.

Come to think of it all my 9MM subguns prefer +P.


Edited by lightguy, 03 December 2019 - 03:47 PM.

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#7 StrangeRanger

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:45 PM

http://samachine.com...Recoil Sprg.htm

 

Unfortunately SA Machine seems to be out of businees


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#8 CaribRadDoc

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 01:49 AM

Ive purchased a few things from Richard at BWE, fast shipping. And hes responsive to emails.
Hope it helps

https://bwefirearms....-recoil-spring/
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