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Transferable AK packs?


mattnh
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Just read a post about there being 10 transferable DLO AK triger packs.

Supposedly not a sear which requires a new hole to be drilled...

 

Anybody got a picture of a DLO AK trigger pack or a picture of a post-sample?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

-- Matt

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"10 AK Registered Trigger packs. Serial Numbers AK01-AK10. These were disallowed at first, then Technology Branch ATF accepted them, as installed in host firearms."

 

as per an article in Small Arms Review V4N12 (September 2001) by Dan Shea regarding DLO production numbers.

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So as that reads they are sears installed in guns and not removable assuming they are even transferable. Any production numbers from DLO are never to be believed. Lots of shenanigans to the point that owning anything marked DLO carries some additional risk with it. I know of a bag of sears sitting that never got installed because there were few guns in the country at the time, they are registered too, just not usable except as po-samples for now. Really, no new info since the 80's.

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Antics not unique to AKs. There are also some AR "auto sears" which have to remain in the hosts because someone was nice enough to register unregulated M-16 sears as machine-guns then sell them to uneducated buyers who then had to convert their semi to full auto by drilling the sear pin hole. Same result: an unregulated part registered as a MG mated with an unregistered MG.

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From original poster:

 

"
It was a independent removable pack with a modified bolt as I remember to act as trip actuator.
It required NO modifications to the gun itself.
I believe it was FA only and defeated the semi...
"

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Sounds more like an AK to HK typo to me? since there is no "pack" on the gun I don't see how that would work? He did do HK packs, but not that many, and no one knows how many for sure....not even him. I have a sear, but that in no way fit's into a "pack" of any kind.

 

fwiw, there are aftermarket semi drop-in AK trigger packs:

 

https://www.primaryarms.com/cmc-ak-m...5lb-curved-bow

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I just pulled the magazine from the dust pile, and yes everything Doug refers to are "estimates" Yes, these had to be installed in host guns just like the other sears in the market at the time for those guns so it's really no big deal at all. If the setup is FA only, well then they are the least desirable of all the converted guns so I'm not sure what the big deal is about?. And there is no selector cut/ markings for FA? Remember (you might not be able to because this was 1986 or earlier) there were no aftermarket drop in trigger packs and there was really no AK market at all. Yes today there is a drop in for everything.

 

To make an AK full auto all you need is a screwdriver tip or toothpick so the "technology" ain't much. If you read the article Doug wants to make the records "right". Oddly he leaves out well in excess of 100 supposed sterling tubes sold later in the 2000's for which parts kits did not exist in the country at the time......he was such a forward thinker! He also seemed to forget the Mag 58's? LOL Shenanigans. Like I said, don't believe too much of what you read. All you can really say is there is a lot more stuff in the registry and that was/is a huge bonus by today's standards.

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So as that reads they are sears installed in guns and not removable assuming they are even transferable. Any production numbers from DLO are never to be believed. Lots of shenanigans to the point that owning anything marked DLO carries some additional risk with it. I know of a bag of sears sitting that never got installed because there were few guns in the country at the time, they are registered too, just not usable except as po-samples for now. Really, no new info since the 80's.

"Lots of shenanigans to the point that owning anything marked DLO carries some additional risk with it." -- DLO wasn't the only one. There are A LOT of fully transferable machineguns in the ATF registry associated with names such as Bill Fleming, Robert Vollmer, J. Curtis Earl, etc. (people who got in big time trouble with the ATF). Many of the issues occured after May 1986 - some were legitimate mistakes, some where blatant felonious acts. But in 30+ years, the dust has settled and we have what we now have and barring another act of Congress, it's unlikely to change. In other words, what's fully transferable will almost certainly remain fully transferable.

 

As a side note - I'm very grateful for people like DLO, Erb and many others who got as many transferable machineguns into the registry as they could.

 

Edited by maxfaxdude
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Thanks for the info guys

Yeah, sounds like his AK conversions are no big deal.

 

What all did Doug estimate he registered in the article?

Doug was always very evasive when I talked to him about it.

People who have been to his house in FL said there were stacks of MG all over.

Edited by mattnh
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Thanks for the info guys

Yeah, sounds like his AK conversions are no big deal.

 

What all did Doug estimate he registered in the article?

Doug was always very evasive when I talked to him about it.

People who have been to his house in FL said there were stacks of MG all over.

Here's the link to the SAR article.http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2583

 

I have talked to Doug and yes he does keep his cards close to his chest so to speak.

 

And more than one source has told me that he does have stacks of machineguns and parts in his house.

Edited by maxfaxdude
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About 50 HK DLO packs were reportedly registered and are fully transferable. I bought the very last one that DLO sold for $24,500 in 2014. The HK DLO packs continue to fetch a premium because they are plug and play and take all factory HK parts. One pack sold this past August with sear host on Sturmgewehr for $50K!

Edited by maxfaxdude
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I don't see why a DLO pack would bring a premium? My sear ready packs have all factory HK parts as well and I can dispose and modify them as I see fit including burst packs. The only non HK part is the sear itself. I have RR's, sears, and a pack, and there is no upside to a registered pack vs. a movable sear IMO. Try moving your pack into a 21e burst setup and let me know how easy that is vs. sliding a sear into the hole? I've actually added several sears over the years since I'm too lazy to spend 3 minutes switching all this stuff out as well, and moving the ejector and trip lever in a burst registered trigger box from an MP5K to a 21e would be a total PITA.

If someone actually paid 50K for that combo I have some Florida mountaintop property for sale.... just east of Miami. I just made an offer on an HK, but the guy was so buried in it he couldn't afford to sell it. A lot of folks are upside down on a lot of things these days since most Americans are financially illiterate and the homeless rank in the upper 60% of wealth based on NET worth.

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Better get your realtor and sell that Florida mountain property while it's still hot! It wasn't I who paid $50K but someone apparently did!

 

I also have a Fleming HK sear. And it works great but...

 

DLO packs command a premium because they are rare (only ~ 50 registered compared to thousands of Fleming, Qualified, S&H and other sears) and they take ALL factory parts with absolutely no gunsmithing required. Almost all sear packs require some amount of gunsmithing (timing hammers etc. to make them work properly).

 

And 3 round burst really isn't that great. All it does is add complexity. SEF is simple and gets the job done.

 

See the HKPro website for details...those guys have hashed it out.

Edited by maxfaxdude
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There are rarer packs than DLO, why don't those command more money? After all, once you have the pack how often are you replacing parts? I don't recall ever replacing a part in a pack in 20 years other than broken ejectors. I did get a pack in with a broken hammer once.

Burst packs offer choice and coolness.......after all that's what 80% of the HK hype and hysteria is all about is it not? Most packs require little if any gunsmithing, drilling a hole maybe. The mythical timed hammer...funny stuff.

I agree it's rare when I switch to burst, but have you ever seen a 21 or 23e without a burst pack? I think you get kicked off HKpro for such things? Lots of funny stuff on there though, like a reincarnation of subguns, but it seems at least most of the guys on there actually own some subguns whereas many subguns guys had none. Good times!

Be glad you have a sear, it's worth significantly more that a DLO pack, regardless of what the consensus is on HKpro. Unlikely yours was DLO's last one though, he has a lot of paperwork left over. Back in the day I called him for a 1919. All sold out. 2 years later and ad pops up....6 1919's available, but of course the price had risen dramatically.

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1 )"There are rarer packs than DLO, why don't those command more money?" -- Supply AND DEMAND.

2) "After all, once you have the pack how often are you replacing parts?" -- The depends on how much you shoot. Shoot enough and you will break just about everything.

3) "Burst packs offer choice and coolness.......after all that's what 80% of the HK hype and hysteria is all about is it not?" -- The vast majority of HK owners do not own select fire machineguns or have burst packs.

4) "The mythical timed hammer...funny stuff." -- Not myth but fact.

5) "...but have you ever seen a 21 or 23e without a burst pack?" I have seen several 21 or 23e without burst packs.

6) "Be glad you have a sear, it's worth significantly more that a DLO pack, regardless of what the consensus is on HKpro." -- Nope, that's not what the market says.

7) "Unlikely yours was DLO's last one though, he has a lot of paperwork left over." -- You might be right - I don't know for sure. I've had one independent source recently tell me that DLO has sold all of his "HK Boxes". But who knows...

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  • 1 month later...

I wonder why they differ from the HK sears which you can buy individually?

 

A HK conversion sear works in an unmodified receiver an AK sear will not.

 

To install an AK sear, you have to drill a hole for it similar to the the auto-sear in a M16/AR15.

In the eyes of the ATF, the hole in AK & AR15 make a MG...

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