Removing Broken Extractor

[Grey Crow]

Broke another extractor today. Flush with the oval on the under side.

I can't get a bite on it to lift it, to slide it out of the bolt.

 

Any tips as to how to remove it.

[Ron A]

I dont have any help on how to get it out - but - what type of ammo are us using? is it steel case or Wolf?

[Grey Crow]

It was Wolf.

 

By the looks of it its going to need to go to a smith. I've tried just about every trick I can think of, and can't get anything under it to spring it free,

 

Wolf "IS" expensive ammo in the long run!

[brian]

in front of the oval, or behind?

 

if it's in front, you "should" be able to get on it with a pair of pliers, like a 6" pair of needle noses, or a small pair of vise-grips.

 

i've removed several with this "technique".

[Grey Crow]

Its broken off at the front. I attempted vise grips, pliers, drilling, (both from the top and front) Placed thin blades and screwdrivers in the semi circular areas hoping to get a bite on it.

 

Any thoughts on cutting a small grove across the bolt allowing something to be slid under the extractor behind the indexing oval??

Think it would weaken the bolt.

I really don't want to replace the bolt if I don't need to. But its in there real good.

 

Such a simple little thing, but perplexing.

[brian]

how long has that extractor been in the weapon?

 

you should be to get ahold of it from the top. if it's been in awhile, try soaking over nite in a cleaner.

 

grinding on the bolt is not something i'd do myself.

[deerslayer]

Got a dremil type tool? You could grind it (the extractor) in half behind the oval with a cutting wheel. Then a simple matter to slide out the rearmost part. When I broke one, I was able to get a bite on the top most part of the oval with a pointy wire cutter (after carefully grinding the wire cutter to a very fine point).

[Grey Crow]

Deerslayer,

 

I'll give the wire cutters a try after working on them. There just isn't enough above the bolt edges to allow much of a grip.

 

Brian,

 

The extractor is around 8 months old, and everything is very clean and kept oiled. It still compresses in the bolt a little.

[Grey Crow]

Well the altered wire cutters couldn't get it. So I used the Dremil and cut the extractor behind the oval. Broken half is out and new in.

 

To think I had extra extractors with me at the range jut in case. LOL, I didn't think it would become an all day ordeal..

 

 

Live and Learn!

 

Thanks everyone for the ideas...... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[John Jr]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ May 29 2005, 06:13 PM)

Any of you Wolf ammo cheerleaders got some advice? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif

Extractors cost $12.50 at Sarco.

 

At a savings of $50 to $100 per thousand I can afford to break a couple of extractors per K and still come out ahead.

 

However I have never broken one.

 

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[Brickyard]

Not looking at one now but, drill a small hole and use an "easy-out" to get the "grip" and pull up on it?

[bug]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ May 29 2005, 07:13 PM)

Any of you Wolf ammo cheerleaders got some advice?  http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif

Sure.

 

Replace the extractor, buy two more cases of Wolf and keep shooting. Broken extractors, firing pins etc happen with all types of ammo. That's why they make spare parts. If a person can't handle that, he should leave his gun in the safe.

 

Good luck Grey Crow, sounds like you got it.

 

Bob D

[john]

Never broke an extractor off shooting Wolf (or anything else, for that matter) but I DID chip the leading edge of an ejector with Wolf.....

 

Usually when I go shooting I have spares with me (spare ejector, complete bolt assembly, recoil spring, a couple of pilot buffers and a spare pilot.

And plenty of magazines! Should cover all minor catastrophies..... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[Grey Crow]

PhilOhio,

 

You have that straight! I used a drill press, Brownell's Do Drill oil, and barely make a dimple on the extractor.

 

The Dremil cut off did the trick. I ended up placing a slit in the bolt, that now just barely allows a paper clip to slide under the broken extractor. Then I polished the area with 320 and 1500 grit to a fine polish.

So that's about $30 for extractors, $80 for ammo, and an afternoon screwing with them getting them out. I think brass has just become cheaper.

 

Back to the range today, more Wolf and "snap", extractor #2. This makes 3 for the life of the gun That's with about 500 rounds of Wolf....

 

I'll burn the rest of the case up in the Kimber and save the Win for the 27.

 

Now all I need do is get my cataracts out and I might just be able to hold a tighter group. See the target even! Its really not too bad on overcast days, but when its bright its hard to drive. Just returned from a 2 week course on police training. It was tough, even tougher with eye problems. Dr says its routine though, and age anymore really has nothing to do with it.

 

I would think that it would be possible to make an extractor on a pivot with an actual spring under the rear end.

[Merry Ploughboy]

Seen on a hand drawn sign at a gun show a couple weeks ago,

 

"Life's too short to shoot crappy ammo"

[John Jr]

Are we talking SEMI AUTO here or the real deal. If its semi auto then..... well you know.....

 

Don't get me started on another Full vs Semi jaunt....

 

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Grey Crow]

John Jr,

 

Yes, Semi Auto.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I was working on it yesterday.

[TSMGguy]

Grey Crow, are you using original WWII extractors?

I've never broken an extractor on either the full auto M1 or the '28A1, although I've laid in a couple of NOS spares just in case. I always remove the extractors when cleaning, especially after having gone through some corrosive surplus ammo. There's some extra flexing of the extractor going on with each cleaning, but this does not seem to have hurt things much.

It looks as though the bevel just in front of the extractor hook neatly contacts the case rim and moves up over it. I feel that there is some battering involved in semi auto extractor failures that just doesn't happen with the original autos. Could the extractor channel in these guns be cut just a little too deep, causing the extractor to strike the case rim a little too far up the bevel?

PK, have you any observations to make on this?

[21 smoker]

As massive as the STen bolt is,I have broken several using Wolf ammo....broke the ejector groove flutes on at least 5 bolts and finally gave up and just use brass case ammo....when this failure happens there is always schrapnel to deal with,anyone standing to the right of the shooter was injured..period...so it becomes more than just replacing parts...Wolf froze up my M16,blew the top cover off my UZI,bulged the barrel on my MAC10/45....Wolf may have a place where it is reliable and safe...I just haven`t found that place yet.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (21 smoker @ May 31 2005, 10:33 AM)

As massive as the STen bolt is,I have broken several using Wolf ammo....broke the ejector groove flutes on at least 5 bolts and finally gave up and just use brass case ammo....when this failure happens there is always schrapnel to deal with,anyone standing to the right of the shooter was injured..period...so it becomes more than just replacing parts...Wolf froze up my M16,blew the top cover off my UZI,bulged the barrel on my MAC10/45....Wolf may have a place where it is reliable and safe...I just haven`t found that place yet.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

YIKES!

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif

[Z3BigDaddy]

I'm just wondering how they stay in business with this kind of carnage.... My Gawd were talking ten different catastrophic failures from one person… Including physical injuries to third parties…

 

But the real question is...... WTH Did it take you ten broken guns before you stopped using it?

[Grey Crow]

One possibility as to why the semi extractors might break faster than one would in a FA.

The semi's have much stronger springs, and slam things about a little rougher.

 

2 of the breaks occurred directly in front of the indexing/retaining oval, and one right behind it. The metal is thicker at these locations, and perhaps more brittle due to hardening the "claw" that pulls the empties from the chamber.

 

Has anyone ever done a hardness test on Wolf Steel vs. Brass cases?

 

Just a guess, I tend to really over analyze these things sometimes.

[Z3BigDaddy]

"Has anyone ever done a hardness test on Wolf Steel vs. Brass cases?"

 

I ask that exact question on the last round of Wolf Talk, and got takin to task by a certain board member....

[21 smoker]

Z3,..to answer some of the questions raised...these firearm failures were not the same each time...this was a learning experience over several years...the lacquer sealant of the .223 ammo would jam the M16 action which fires from a closed bolt...the UZI is a slam fire 9mm that would fire out of battery with Wolf,possibly a lacquer issue...the MAC 10/45 was operator error probably due to my frustration over several squibs encountered that day...the STen was my first NFA and it took some detailed inspection to find the bolt problem and find a solution..again this was a long time learning session that will never stop..maybe the newer ammo will work out...for now I`ll stick with brass and put some of these `posties` together...another great learning experience btw..I feel that brass cased ammo is more consistant when tuning for the initial range test...hth... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[Norm]

On the subject of Wolf ammo....

 

I used some yesterday for the first time, and I will never use this stuff in my Thompson!

 

I was looking at purchasing an M11/9 SMG from a man here in town. I met him at the range and looked at the gun. I inspected the gun first and it looked good; barely used. I talked about a price with him and agreed that if the gun tested ok, I would buy it.

 

He had two or three magazines full of 9mm copper ball ammo. The first magazine was Winchester ammo and the gun shot fine. He had a 55 round magazine that I wanted to test, also. The ammo looked different in it, and I asked him about it. He said it was Wolf ammo that he usually shoots in his Vector Uzi.

 

I loaded the magazine, took aim, and pulled the trigger. The gun fired about twenty-five shots before it jammed, making a very loud CLANK noise. I droped the magazine from the gun and checked to make sure the gun was empty. As I was setting the gun down, I noticed that the sight plate had BROKEN OFF OF THE GUN! I was lucky that I wasn't hurt.

 

Needless to say, the man selling the gun was not too happy. Neither was I; I was ready to buy.

 

I do know that the wolf ammo cylced so hard, it hurt to shoot it.

 

After that, I told myself "No Wolf ammo in my Thompson!"

 

Norm