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Curio/Relic FFL question please


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#1 tom silver

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 11:51 AM

I applied for my Curio/Relic FFL and I was told it takes a few months to get. Once I get it, can I pick, up my Ingram M6 at the gun store that is holding it until I am approved for a tax stamp?  It may be sitting at the store for another 9 or more months. I filled out all the forms, finger prints, etc. Will the Curio/Relic FFL give me the power to pick it up and bring it home?  I was told with this license, a seller can send the relic to your home instead of a FFL SOT dealer. Does anyone know the answer to my question. Thanks 


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#2 b_san

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 11:58 AM

You may not possess an NFA item until the Form 4 transfer to you has been approved and the approved form has been received by the transferor. Whether or not you have a C&R or even a regular FFL is irrelevant (not getting into repair letters at this time).
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#3 ppgcowboy

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 02:32 PM

A few of the benefits of an 03 FFL C&R license, is that a C&R weapon can be shipped directly to you, you can also travel interstate without having to file a form 5320.20 with the attached, but it does not allow you to circumvent the form 4 transfer time. Wouldn't it be nice though.

Edited by ppgcowboy, 25 February 2021 - 02:40 PM.

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#4 tom silver

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:29 PM

thanks. I know I am not allowed to fire it until I am approved. So if I buy another relic and it's shipped to me directly, I still have to surrender it to a gun store when I file for my tax stamp, correct?  I can get it shipped directly to me with the C&R license, but it has to be dropped off at the store where I file for the license tax stamp.  Right???


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#5 huggytree

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:56 PM

If you have a c&r and the gun is a c&r you transfer it to yourself as an individual and put your c&r license on the form 4. You do not need a dealer. The gun transfers direct to you. Gun ships direct to you.

You can shoot your m6 at your dealer. Its best to shoot it and make sure it runs. This way any needed repair can be done while the gun is still in Nfa jail. Vs waiting until you get your stamp and then losing your gun to a gunsmith for 1-2 years.
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#6 ppgcowboy

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 09:40 PM

The seller can hold the nfa item until the stamp is approved and then ship it to you. But it may be better to get it near you to fondle every once in awhile.
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#7 Sandman1957

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 10:03 PM

Tom, there are a lot more nuances to this than what quick simple answers can convey.  There was a thread on this a few years back and I'll see if I can find it.  

First of all, when you fill out the Form 4 for a Machinegun, if you already have your C&R license then that is covered in the form.  The Form has to be in your name, and not a Trust.  If you are getting your NFA item via a trust, then the C&R license cannot be used.  Only humans can get C&Rs, not trusts.  C&Rs allow you to get Curio and Relics across state lines, and they can be sent straight to you once BAFTE NFA Division approve the transfer.  Not before.  This is the same with dealers as well.  There is more, but wanted to let you know, it does not work with Trusts in case that is how you are transferring it.  Good luck and I'll look for that thread.

Cheers

Sandman1957

 

Here you go, lot of information in here,  The Lone Ranger spells out the bound book requirements as well.  Hope it helps

 

http://www.machinegu...advantages +c


Edited by Sandman1957, 25 February 2021 - 10:10 PM.

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#8 tom silver

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:06 PM

Thanks so much for this information. I am getting my M6 in a trust so when I "kick" the wife gets it without any hassle so she can sell it. My dear wife loves her 45 hand gun, but she still can't get why I wanted an Ingram SMG. I just got a deal from Brownell's on 1000 45s which arrived yesterday. I did purchase 4 NOS mags thanks to this group recommending it to me. My M6 came with 3 mags that look like they had never been used. I think two of them actually had bar code stamps still on them. Now the long wait is on. I hope it does not take a full year for me to get the tax stamp and my SMG. The good thing is that we live on mountain forest so I will be shooting in my back yard and not at a range. Thanks again for all the information. TS


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#9 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 08:36 PM

If you kick the bucket, assuming she is the executrix of your estate she gets it without any hassle and has the ability to sell it at any point before the estate closes out easier than if it were in a trust.  Before the estate is closed she can file a form 5 transferring it to herself should she feel the need to keep it past that point with no tax due. 

Perhaps you're worth 11.7 mil or more, then keeping the funds in trust may be a benefit?  At that point I'd have the attorney and accountant deal with it?

 

Transferring machine guns normally is easy and there are plenty of folks that can help.  How confident are you about her or someone helping her transferring assets/ providing documents, affidavits, responsible person forms,  and maintaining a trust, or in the event she moves the trust may or may not be valid, etc.? 

 

As sandman points out trusts don't get the benefit of C+R license privileges.  HTH


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#10 ppgcowboy

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Posted 26 February 2021 - 11:31 PM

Her next husband is going love you.
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#11 TSMGguy

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Posted 28 February 2021 - 09:29 AM

So if I buy another relic and it's shipped to me directly, I still have to surrender it to a gun store when I file for my tax stamp, correct?  I can get it shipped directly to me with the C&R license, but it has to be dropped off at the store where I file for the license tax stamp.  Right???

 

 

No; the gun cannot be shipped to you until the transfer is approved. 


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#12 tom silver

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 01:47 PM

Okay thanks. The wife is a CPA so she is good with documents. When we filed the Class III her finger prints, photo, etc was all conducted at the same time. We did the living trust so can pass onto her without any hassles. 


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#13 tom silver

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 01:49 PM

So if I buy another relic and it's shipped to me directly, I still have to surrender it to a gun store when I file for my tax stamp, correct?  I can get it shipped directly to me with the C&R license, but it has to be dropped off at the store where I file for the license tax stamp.  Right???

 

 

No; the gun cannot be shipped to you until the transfer is approved. 

So when the ATF approves a transfer with my class III license (if I have one), then the MG or SMG can be shipped directly to me, correct?  Are you saying that upon approval of a Tax stamp from ATF is only when a Class III item can be directly shipped to me?


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#14 StrangeRanger

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 03:32 PM

No gun in the registry transfers without ATF approval, not ever.

If it's a dealer to dealer transfer, ATF has to approve the Form 3 which usually is a matter of days

If it's an individual to dealer transfer ATF has to approve the Form 4 which usually takes 2-3 months

If it's a dealer to private individual or an in-state individual to individual transfer, ATF has to approve the Form 4 before the gun moves and that usually takes 6 months or more.

If you hold a C&R license, ATF still must approve the Form 4 and it still takes several months.  The advantage you gain with a C&R is that there does not have to be a Class 3 dealer on the receiving end of an interstate transfer of a C&R eligible gun so there is only one stamp involved


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#15 b_san

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 03:21 PM

No gun in the registry transfers without ATF approval, not ever.
If it's a dealer to dealer transfer, ATF has to approve the Form 3 which usually is a matter of days
If it's an individual to dealer transfer ATF has to approve the Form 4 which usually takes 2-3 months
If it's a dealer to private individual or an in-state individual to individual transfer, ATF has to approve the Form 4 before the gun moves and that usually takes 6 months or more.
If you hold a C&R license, ATF still must approve the Form 4 and it still takes several months.  The advantage you gain with a C&R is that there does not have to be a Class 3 dealer on the receiving end of an interstate transfer of a C&R eligible gun so there is only one stamp involved


Good points but none of it really matters to him at this point as he's just applied for his C&R and the gun has already transferred to his local SOT. He is now awaiting the approval of his Form 4 from that local SOT to him, having a C&R license at this point is irrelevant other than he must record it in his C&R book (if he receives his license before the Form 4 is approved) as the ATF holds the position that any C&R firearms acquired while possessing a C&R license must be recorded even if the firearms weren't acquired using the license.


Edited by b_san, 02 March 2021 - 03:23 PM.

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#16 heavy artillery

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Posted 26 March 2021 - 03:04 PM

ATF holds the position that any C&R firearms acquired while possessing a C&R license must be recorded even if the firearms weren't acquired using the license.

 

<Disregard - just revisited other threads clarifying this topic.>


Edited by heavy artillery, 26 March 2021 - 03:08 PM.

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#17 Grasshopper

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Posted 30 March 2021 - 10:28 PM

Ummm,

 

If the firearm is going to a Trust, the C&R does nothing for the OP with this firearm in this situation AFAIK.  No reason to put it in the A&D as it is owned by the Trust and not the C&R holder.

 

A 5320.20 will have to be filed to go to another friendly state 'cause the firearm is owned by a Trust and not an individual with a C&R license.

 

I could be wrong.  Been wrong before.  If folks know better, please let me know!

 

Grasshopper

 

 

ps.  FWIW, I started 2 NFA transfers to individuals in August 2020.  They were approved in 4 months.  At the same time I submitted 1 NFA transfer to a Trust.  8 months and still waiting.


Edited by Grasshopper, 30 March 2021 - 10:36 PM.

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