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WTS 28A1 SAVAGE THOMPSON

 

Posted By: MIKE ADDISS (CPE-24-26-168-130.mn.rr.com)

Date: 1/26/04 15:24

 

28 A1 SAVAGE THOMPSON. REPARKERISED(OVER 20 YEARS AGO). PARKERISING HAS A NICE PATINA. OLD P.D. GUN."VILLAGE OF LIBERTY" STICKER ON STOCK. BELIEVE GUN HAS 21 WOOD ON IT. VERTICAL FOREGRIP. FINNED BARRELL. ADJUSTABLE LYMAN SITE.SERIAL NUMBER IS 15043. GUN IN VG CONDITION. PRICE IS $13,500. PLUS SHIPPING. COMPUTOR ON FRITZ,PLEASE CALL WITH ANY QUESTIONS. MIKE 612-866-1602 (MN.) THIS IS A C&R GUN.

 

 

If I was looking for one, I would buy this one.

 

Jr

 

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Hmmmm, this is weird. As far as I know Savage started their serial number range at S-15041, Colt's last one in 1922 was 15040. If the SN on this gun is correct (it doesn't say S-15043 like it should if it's a Savage) and it really is a Savage, then it is actually the third Thompson gun made by Savage. That would make it a straight M1928, not an A1. Something in that ad has got to be wrong.

 

Balder

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Balder,

 

The gun is a straight Model of 1928. The US and A1 appear to have been added later. The stamping and font appears different to me. This would have been done by US military armorers when they standardized the gun as US Model of 1928A1.

 

It is an interesting gun, but obviously has been rebuilt. Still a nice example, though.

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I'd like to see that one also. It would have to be NY,NY with that serial number.

 

I don't want to start a war here but are we sure that Savage started with S15041? I have never seen that documented anywhere and several noted figures I have asked indicated S1 as the first. Because there is an S in the serial number the Colt SNs would not have been repeated. I don't know.

 

Any thoughts?

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Bug,

The only Savage TSMG with the serial # S1 is the experimental 9mm prototype. Since the Commercial Savage TSMG's did start with serial number 15041, it doesn't seem likely that 15,040 Savage guns came before the "Commercial" Savage Thompson. If there exist lower serial numbers for these guns, what designation would they have, and more importantly, where have they been?

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Balder is correct. The gun would have a New York, N.Y. address on the right side of the receiver. The gun also does have the Savage "S" prefix in front of the serial number. You just have to look hard for it. I'll try to post a link for it soon.

 

Here is a picture of the gun from the ad:

 

http://members.aol.com/gijive/Savage.jpg

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Arthur,

 

The original ad is on Subguns.com. It was there for a couple of weeks before he put it on Sturmgewehr. There are two other pictures available on Subguns.com. I agree, the gun has undergone several rebuilds. Hard to tell if the serial number on the receiver has been altered. Look closely, the US and A1 are retro-stamped on the gun. The Army did place some large orders in 1940 and this gun could have gone to them if that is the original number on the gun. I concur with your thought that the gun might be in the 150,000 range, though. It's hard to tell from the photo.

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I spoke with Mike Addiss today. The gun definitely is 15043, with the upper and lower having the same s/n.

What makes this weird, is the "3" on the upper s/n is stamped backwards!

Mike thinks this made the upper (and whole gun?) rejected. He thinks it sat a while until being fitted with the "current" pin type levers, etc. and sold to a PD (has a tag on it that says "Village of Liberty").

Since the upper and lower have the same ( I assume the lower number 3 is not stamped backwards), this implies the gun could be returned to original condition.

It sounds like it was buffed a bit before being re-parked (why?? It originally didn't have parkerizing) about 20 yrs ago, and reading some of the patent stampings is difficult.

I will ask him if it has a NY,NY stamp and if the patent info is dates or numbers. This may help clear it up.

What should all of the rest of the parts have stamped on them? I assume it should be a "S" not squared, for Savage. If it was an early Savage, how likely was it that they robbed the Colt parts bin? And just what is in it I do not yet now.

I may be getting pictures later. Will post if I do

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How did Mr. Addiss ad forget to mention that the 3 in the serial number was stamped backwards?..... It could have square "S's" for Stevens on parts, as well as the Savage "S". Now that this appears to be some sort of a reject gun, the waters are a bit muddy. If this was the 15043 that was stampd correctly, or maybe even incorrectly, it would have had a bunch of Colt parts in it. But it's value as a "commercial" Savage has been compromised with the parkerizing. Still, this is a neat find. Strange he hasn't found a buyer yet...Pics would be way cool!!!
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Arthur,

 

I'm not so sure that a backwards 3 on a gun would have made it past the inspectors. It sounds to me like maybe an incorrectly stamped 8? I don't believe the numbers were stamped by hand, so an early roll die, if the serial number is correct ,shouldn't have worn out that early in the production run, would it? I wonder if the serial number has been altered? Puzzling...........still is an interesting gun, though

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G.I.,

Yes, of course. That is why the serial numbers on Colt's look sharp, but the 28 Navy stamps look out of place. How could there be a problem with the markings on one of the first three 1928 Savage production run guns?..Well, I guess this could be looked at two ways: either there was a problem with the markings on the first few serial numbers, or there was an abberation right away with this gun's markings, and since the three was legible, they passed it...But without seeing this gun close-up, it is just a frustrating supposition.

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I have 3 additional pics of this gun from the seller.

 

The first is the right side of the upper, and it shows the S-15043 clearly. There is also a "shadow" of a NO... in the background, like another number was there prior!

 

Email me for the ipcs, I can't figure out how to add them anymore!

 

The second one shows the lower, it is clearly 15043.

 

The right side of the reciever is not shown clearly in any of them, and I requested a beter one of it. But, it appears there are an odd number of patent marks since I see two columns and one more entered below the two columns (I think they are numbers, and not dates). You can't make out the address of Auto-Ordnance either, but there are a lot of characters there, more like Bridgeport, Conn rather than Ny, Ny.

 

If it does have numbers numbers and a Bport address, what the heck is it?? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif

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Just got the pic with the patents - they are numbers!

 

I am wondering if someone made this upper match a lower they had......

 

 

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Mike,

 

"What the heck is it?": A restamped receiver to make it appear more attractive to a buyer. An original Savage gun with a serial number that low would have a New York address on the right side of the receiver. I just looked at the pictures on Subguns.com again and I don't know why I didn't notice this earlier, the Auto-Ordnance engraving and the patent date numbers are in the position of a Bridgeport, CT marked receiver. An early Savage gun with a serial number in that range would have the A.O. New York address at the rear of the receiver and the patent dates nearer the ejection port like the Colt Thompson receivers. The position of the stampings indicates a later made Bridgeport, CT stamped gun, so the serial number on the gun has to have been altered. This also explains the "reasonable" price for the gun.

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Thanks guys. I agree this is a restamped reciever. Questionable if it may have been rewatted at one time. Pictures won't show this.

 

As you know, I am looking for a shooter 1928. This may be a good one for that purpose.

 

Question - maybe Tman will know - is since this is in Minn on a form 3 (?? I thought they only had C&Rs there!) will there ever be any trouble with me putting it on a form 4 for a C&R in Mich?? If it is a rewat is it an OK C&R gun?? I want to CYA before I buy something that I can't keep! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

 

 

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Ron,

If this Savage TSMG was indeed serial number 15043, it would indeed have been a significant find, if not a "rare" find. If the info we have is only from the ad, previous to seeing any photos, then what are we to assume? Now that the air is out of the balloon on this particular gun, we look forward to the next false alarm.

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