Commercial Savage

[firearm]

I was digging around in my vault today and came across some Savage 1928's with New York marked receivers. This is one of the four that I found. SN# is 18656 on the NFA Registry, however the weapon is marked S-18656. The lower matches and it is pretty good shape. I bought it and another from a South Texas Sheriff's Department sometime back. They both had been in the department for many years (I need to do a FOIA) and came in some vintage handmade wooden cases that look like the old Indiana flat cases. I read through the Small Arms Review article today that "Kilroy" posted a link to back in 2016 but I am confused as to what gen it is. 1st, or 2nd? This quote is very confusing to me:

" It is important to re-emphasize Savage receivers were still being marked with a New York address when the patent date markings changed to patent number markings. There are three known variations of address and patent markings on the Savage Thompson receiver:

• The very early first type Savage receiver marked with a New York address and patent date markings (seldom encountered).
• The second type Savage receiver marked with a New York address and patent number markings is the most commonly found Savage receiver with a New York address. The patent numbers were positioned in the same location as the patent dates.
• The third type (and most commonly encored) Savage receiver is marked with a Bridgeport address and patent number markings. "

 

I see no patent numbers. Is this a 1st gen? Pics attached. Any info is much appreciated.

[ppgcowboy]

I need to dig around in my safe.

[huggytree]

yes 1st gen same as mine...very early serial # you have there.....also very nice finish

 

original barrel? and you have yourself a very nice collector gun.

 

you should have some nickel lower guts and a type 2 compensator

Edited December 11, 2017 by huggytree

[bug]

Very nice original finish commercial gun. That looks like a Colt pistol grip. Are there any marks on the front of the buttstock? What type of foregrip does it have?. Your receiver pattern is the earliest version. What is the SN range of the other three? Did you know a Thompson guy named Frank Serino in your neck of the woods? He had quite a few Tguns 20 or so years ago. TD, who posts here, has a great book on the early Savage guns. Mush good info.

 

Bob D

[TD.]

That quote is not confusing to me - because I wrote that 2009 story for Small Arms Review (SAR) magazine. Based only on the two pictures you posted, it appears to me you have a very nice early Savage Thompson. Pictured in the SAR story is Board member BUG's very nice Savage Commercial Thompson, S-16863. In 2009, I had only documented three different Savage receiver variations. The total is now four. All four variations and known serial number ranges are pictured and explained in my book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story. Suffice to say, the early Savage Thompsons and the story of the Thompson gun in Great Britain go hand in hand.

 

Savage Thompson S-18656 is representative of the first type of receiver manufactured by Savage Arms. Note the patent date markings. I believe the patent date markings were used only with the first Savage Arms contract with Auto-Ordnance Corporation - the first 10,000 guns. These are the same patent date markings with 1922 dates that are found on the last Thompson guns manufactured by Colt's.The second variation receiver from Savage Arms is almost identical, but the patent dates are replaced by patent numbers.

 

Board member giantpanda4 is the owner of "The Third Savage Thompson," the subject of this 2009 story.

 

​Is S-18656 a Savage Commercial Thompson? Probably. A response from a Freedom of Information Act request may be all that is needed to show it was registered with the IRS in the early 1940's. Or documentation from the South Texas Sheriff's department.

 

Please post pictures of your other early Savage Thompson guns.

[firearm]

I am headed out of town until after the New Year. When I get back, I will post as much info and as many pics as I can. All 4 have the same patent markings on the right side of the receiver. All marked New York, NY. I have SN#'s 18656, 18082, 18094 and 18741. 18082 and 18094 are Pre-86 dealer samples. The other two are transferable. I picked them off from the Cameron County SD in south Texas years ago. They are still in the original handmade wooden cases . I will try to post pics of those as well. The pre-86 samples came from Jeff Miller out of AZ. back in 96. Wood looks to be Colt (Remington) but the buttstocks are not marked on 18656, 18082 and 18741. 18094 does have the "anchor" inspector mark from Remington. All 4 have "S" marked barrels. 18082 and 18094 have the original alignment marks. The other two do not but sure look original to me. All have nickel internals and 2nd gen "Cutts" .

 

Yes. Frank Serino out of Lewisville, Texas. I remember that guy. That was one crazy SOB. I talked to him a few times. Hung up on him that many times as well. I just couldn't deal with the man. Maybe I was short tempered then, like I am now.

[Motorcar]

It always amazes me what shows up on this board, that is one nice Savage!

[firearm]

I have all kinds of Thompson stuff around here. I have been collecting for a long time but about 2 or 3 years ago, I just got burnt out on the class 3 thing I parked all this stuff and found something else to do. Actually I just accidentally tripped across this web site a few weeks ago. Did a few emails with David and thought that I might put some of my things up here for others to enjoy. No sense in hiding it in a vault for no one else to see. I bought my first Thompson back in the 80's. Got screwed so bad that I decided to learn a lot more about them. I still remember that guy in Houston that took me to the cleaners by 1st name. Unfortunately, financial lessons are the best teachers by far. In any case, just because you have a lot of something doesn't mean you know a lot about it. I have learned a lot from just looking back at some of the post on this site over the last few days. Some pretty smart guys here.

[Devious6]

What a beautiful rifle - and I really enjoy learning the history of these pieces of history.

[Adg105200]

Nice looking Savage! Definitely looks like a early Savage grip on it. Yes, can't wait to see pictures of the others you have in your vault.

 

Andrew

[huggytree]

when another S1928 showed up about a year or so ago on this forum it had what was thought to be an original barrel...it had no barrel line.....i remember it being discussed on whether it SHOULD or SHOULDNT have a barrel line.....seeing all yours are similar serial #'s you'd think it would be 1 way or the other, so possibly some of your barrels are replacements and some not...

 

are you considering selling either of the transferrables?

[firearm]

Right now, I am just going through everything to see what I really have in hand. At a later date I am going to sell most of everything I have except my Texas Rangers 21's. My kids don't seem to be too interested in them and I can't take them with me. Can I? When I do sell the two Cameron Guns, they will be offered as a set in the originals cases. I'll post some jpegs when I get back.

[bug]

Yes. Frank Serino out of Lewisville, Texas. I remember that guy. That was one crazy SOB. I talked to him a few times. Hung up on him that many times as well. I just couldn't deal with the man. Maybe I was short tempered then, like I am now.

 

Glad to learn you're NOT him. Looking forward to your pictures of this wonderful bunch of guns. Happy Holidays...

 

Bob D

[buzz]

I have a 17XXX Savage Commercial. So your guns were made within a few days of mine.

 

Definitely do a FOIA on your guns. I did a FOIA inquiry on mine and was able to determine that it belonged to a suburban NYC police department along with another Thompson, a Colt.

 

I have seen a couple of 17,000 and 18,000 serial number range Commercials pop up in the last year, one was only about 15 serial numbers away from mine.

 

We should start collecting photographs of these Commercial guns before they disappear back into gun safes, not to be seen again for 20 years. They sort of pop up now and again but nobody seems to know much about them.

 

For example, there are descriptions of savage commercials that indicate that they should have a higher level of fit and finish than the rest of the British contract guns, but none of the 17,000 and 18,000 serial number range guns I have seen look any different, they just have normal savage parts and black oxide finish.

 

Mine has a Colt buttstock and an index line on the receiver but not on the barrel. The barrel is a Savage and all of the internals are Savage.

 

Mine had a nickle steel bolt that was damaged on the bolt face, the lip was deformed. The barrel and feed ramp are pristine and perfect, so I figure that someone just dropped it on the floor.

[huggytree]

Buzz the one about a year ago with the reported original barrel was the same as yours...no barrel line, but a line on the receiver...

 

curious how many S1928's exist in the registry? both commercial and British.... 100? 200?

 

they come up for sale 1-3 a year

 

 

any guess

Edited December 11, 2017 by huggytree

[colt21a]

Nick around the house someplace I have one of the first Texas Rangers getting in his hands a 21ac and a letter from the guy who did the book. Can't remember the title but will locate it.since it was sent to me probably 25 years ago.

Also nice info on the savage guns. Sold the one and only well over 30 years now.

 

It was a cool variant while collecting buying selling and trading. And yes keep the Texas pair. you know once you get past ten level it's all cleaning and keeping them up. When I moved here now 20 years. and had over twenty laying on the tables.. The Wife would say now what?More guns....

 

And I would walk away mumbling something about if you only knew the history and well it went no place.. so march on. and enjoy.

 

Colt 21A Ron

 

P.S. I might have had dealing with the Frank guy also a guy in St. Charles Il was good also. I think all the five gun players. left long ago.

Even met some that got up to ten guns afterwards. they went boats and Planes, and Divorce and got out. All in their 50's at the time.Time flies and it changes all for sure.

[firearm]

I have 5 or 6 "Texas Highway Patrol" guns around here somewhere. I was working with a guy about 6 months ago that was trying to track down the inventory card that they (Texas Hwy Patrol) kept on weapons and who they were issued to. The "blue" card is what they called it. It's around somewhere. Need to get back on that. One of the head guys, a captain with the Texas Rangers was talking to me about one he has in his office and another that I have. He thinks his was issued to "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas. I have two that I know are Texas Rangers guns and I suspect two more are. I picked off #5979 some years back from an estate around Austin, Texas. You would not believe how many dealers passed it by. Her best offer was around $4K. I dropped $20K cask on the table for it, an UZI and something else. She about passed out. I was pretty sure it was a Texas Hwy Patrol weapon, but later I found out that it was issued to Thomas R. Hickman. Texas Ranger. Circa 1926. I even have a copy of the shipping docs to him from Federal Labs along with another. Hickman was quite a character. Check out his bio:

 

http://www.texasranger.org/halloffame/Hickman_Tom.htm

 

You remember the serial number on the 21AC weapon that you sold years ago? I never sold any of my Thompsons until about a year or two ago. At that time, I think I had about 80. 50 or so Colts. Best investment I have ever made. Can't say that about those stocks I bought! I am 65 now and I think I am going to skim a few off the top and let the new guys have the others for a while.

[colt21a]

Yeah Nick I am still waiting for Jerry P.in Wi. to sell off his stash.He bought a ton from me starting around 1975 when I sold him a MAT 49 Nam bring back. Now today try and find one, Who brings back a MAT49 anyhow when I talked with him a few years back I think he told me sold it. Any how good tales on the Thompsons many here should enjoy new stories and blood. They have tired of me pretty quick!

 

Colt21 A Ron

[full auto 45]

Nick, you do realize that when you said you are going to start selling off your collection, a dozen board members cashed out their 401 and remortgaged the farm just waiting!

[mohawk64]

I'd love to find a good 21A. Put my name on the list please