gijive Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hello All, As a result of Recon Bob’s excellent post on the barrel markings, I thought I would post some photos of other tell-tale signs that these Lend-Lease Thompsons were rebuilt prior to shipment overseas. The barrel alignment witness marks is one clue, another is the non-matching butt stock components. Original early guns had assembly numbers on the wood stock, butt plate and slide attachment. I once had an early matching Savage made stock with all matching numbers, but alas, I sold it years ago otherwise I would provide pictures of the matching numbers. The below pictures are from two Auto-Ordnance made Thompsons (Nos. 42,700 and 60680) that came from the so-called Russian Lend-Lease Thompsons discovered several years ago. One is an early parts kit that had the receiver cut and included the nose piece and also the rear of the receiver with the Lyman adjustable sight still attached. I took the barrel off the receiver so I know that this parts kit (No. 42,700) was all one gun at one point. I realize that the later parts kits were just components and were from different guns. The pictures show the butt stock components from each of the two kits and indicate that the numbers don’t match, as they should if the guns were “straight off the assembly line.” Actually, many replacement butt stocks don’t have any numbers stamped on the parts as they dropped the practice of stamping assembly numbers when the M1 series was put into production in 1942. In a previous post someone asked where these guns came from if they were rebuilt? The receiver piece from gun No. 42,700 shows the WB and Army Ordnance Bomb acceptance marks indicating a U.S. Military owned gun. I believe these guns were former U.S. Army guns that became “Limited Standard” when the M1 series of guns were distributed. I offer these photos as some photographic evidence to support my theory that these guns were rebuilt at some point prior to shipment overseas, not to reopen the debate about whether the guns were shipped from the factory right off the assembly line. Hope you enjoy the photos. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/001.jpg Numbered butt stock from gun No. 42,700. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/004-1.jpg Non-matching assemb;y number on butt plate from gun No. 42,700. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/003.jpg Non-matching slide assembly fron gun No. 42,700. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/005.jpg Overall view of butt stock from same gun. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/011.jpg Receiver nose piece from gun No. 42,700. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/012.jpg WB and Ordnance Bomb acceptance marks from same gun. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/015.jpg Grip frame from No. 42,700. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/007.jpg Replacement butt stock from gun No. 60,680 showing no assembly number. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/006.jpg Butt plate from gun No. 60,680 showing assembly number of butt plate. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/010.jpg Slide assembly from same gun showing no assembly number. http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/Colt1928/008.jpg Grip frame from gun No. 60,680. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthefields70 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Gijive, what an excellent post! Being an owner of one of the mysterious lend-lease guns, i am always on the look out for information. Inspired by your detective work, I have just removed the butt plate from my gun and found the following :: http://www.flickr.com/photos/riven2011/7021829477/in/photostream butt plate 5089 http://www.flickr.com/photos/riven2011/7021838245/in/photostream wood stock 3795 http://www.flickr.com/photos/riven2011/7021851967/in/photostream My 1928A1 is number 424239. Being a complete newbie in these matters, I was wondering if these numbers mean anything regarding age? Is the wooden stock the oldest part of my gun? Do the 3 different numbers help to confirm your theory? When you say "Original early guns had assembly numbers on the wood stock" when were the original guns made? Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) sidthefields 70, What I meant by original guns was the 1928 and 1928A1 Models that were manufactured between 1940 and 1942. Depending on the model features, finned barrel versus smooth barrel, knurled actuator versus smooth ball actuator, etc. the early guns (1940-1941) had the fins, knurling and Lyman adjustable sights, later guns (1942) had smooth barrels and non-adjustable sights. The butt stocks on these guns, when they werwe assembled at the factory, would have had no cross bolt reinforcement and the number stamped into the wood and the number stamped on the butt plate would match. On the earliest made guns, the slide attachment was also stamped with the same number. I don't know if they continued the practice of stamping the slide attachment during the entire 1928 Model production run, because I have seen matching numbers on wood and butt plate, but no number on the slide attachment. The assembly number was to insure that the same butt plate and slide attachment was reunited with the wood butt stock after the blueing process, as sometimes the parts were hand fitted. The assembly number on the butt stock components had no relation to the serial number of the gun itself. Having not seen a Russian parts kit butt stock with all matching numbers (wood, butt plate, slide) indicates to me that these butt stocks were rebuilt from existing guns prior to Lend-Lease shipment. Edited March 28, 2012 by gijive 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthefields70 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thanks for the detailed reply gijive - i have a much better understanding now. I think your theory sounds very logical, My gun appears to be a bit of a mish mash. Finned barrel, smooth actuator ball, stock without reinforced bolt, standard "L" sights, though it looks like adjustable sights may have been on originally. Unfortunately, I can't dismantle the gun any further to locate any more numbers. Buggar, Thanks again for the information and making my gun even more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthefields70 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 This may be obvious to some but I was wondering if the knurled stock release button on my gun and its smooth actuator ball again confirms the mix and match of the guns, or is this knurling on the release button the same on all Thompsons? Sorry if this is obvious but I have only seen and handled my own gun. http://www.flickr.com/photos/riven2011/7024476661/in/photostream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Different number on my slide assembly too, although pitting makes it hard to read. ex-British gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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