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Finally Gonna Buy Me One


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I thank you all for chiming in and continue adding to my growing knowledge base. As I read more, learn and find more, I have come to the right place. Thanks again for the help and your time I hope to have one narrowed down very shortly.

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when ive seen a real nice ww2 gun bought by a forum member for $20k i dont see why you would even consider a WH....your not saving much of anything, but you are risking everything.....a repair can be 2-3 years to be made right by PK......i just dont hear anyone say their ww2 gun doesnt run....i dont remember anyone having much of an issue if its all original and not messed with much...

 

id just assume a $23k budget and grab one of the refinished M1's that keep popping up...if your budget is $18k then grab a WH.....but if you get unlucky you will end up tossing $$ into it and say good bye to it for a year to 3 years........the only WH ive handled personally doesnt run well....when i compare the smoothness of the action to my Savage its completely different....mine is like glass...his is blah....if a WH was $12,000 i could see the risk...but when its $3-5k i dont see any reason to risk it....

 

$27k buys you a nice gun today....im sure Ruben has a few to choose from....

 

 

 

what is your budget?

Edited by huggytree
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I had a bad experience with David Spiwak about 10 years ago. SMG was described as matching and original finish. It was neither and to add to that it was non functioning. He did take it back but that ended my dealings with him. Regarding West Hurley Thompsons: I purchased an M1 WH a couple years ago. I already owned 2 original WW2 Thompsons ( M1, M1928A1 ) and wanted a shooter. It ran well but I wasn't happy with the bluing and non USGI components( mag release, rear sight, bolt, upper grip mounting plate, etc). I sent it to John Andrewski to have it refinished and to replace all non USGI components and properly spec the mag well. He did a fantastic job! ( will post pictures soon ). Anyway, I personally don't have a problem with WH Thompsons but if this is your first purchase or your only Thompson purchase I would strongly recommend that you wait for an original USGI WW2 Thompson. Good luck! Todd in Oregon

John Andrewski is awesome. He worked on my MP40 Tube gun and will also be doing work on my hydra-matic m16a1 reweld.

Edited by NFA amnesty
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Vettom, you will probably find something that gets your attention online. These guys are spot on when talking about patients and misrepresentation. I would not in today's market or yesterday's for that matter pay over 20K for a gun without putting my hands on it. If to do over again, I would put together a vacation package and spend a little up front to get hands on and meet the guy selling.

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I have a very experienced dealer who is networking and me too. Some TSMG I have seen are offered with 3 day inspection and return policy. I have found WH with GI internals and GI SMGs out there, lots to choose from. So patiently looking for the right first one with a decent price is hard to do but investment was always my first criteria. So Going into a softer market now may not be bad either. That said I think i would not rule out a WH depends on particular gun, accessories if any and the bottom line is always price. So we shall see what happens.
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PS. Almost every gun I have purchased I always consider resale if I ever am in a position that I have to have funds back out of it. This first TSMG will be no different so I have the budget for a nice GI so hopefully there is a decent deal to be had for my first one. Still not ruling out a WH if I can do both. Just depends 🤔
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mr Spiwak advertised my gun a BRAND NEW...when it showed up with pitted rust he told me that it must be 3 day old pits as it left his shop looking brand new, the added rail had screws doing down into the tube barely missing the bolt, part of the safety was missing and the gun wouldnt even dry fire..it would just jam up...it showed me he didnt care...my communication w/ him was horrible...his brother was good.....it was my option to send the gun back and i declined.....after waiting 3 months i was going to deal with what it was.....we had agreed to send it in to brp for the repair and refinish....he didnt want to pay more than $100-150 for the refinish..when we found out more needed refinishing and the barrel was full of rust FUR! and garbage he refused to pay for a new barrel/ 1/2 the refinish....he even didnt want to pay the $5 for the missing part....in the end he did...he wrote me a check for $155 and i had to pay $400 out of pocket for a new barrel and extra refinishing....he was never pleasant on the phone, he never said im sorry....he seemed angry and pissed on all phone calls...he offered my $ back and he offered a 2nd gun(exactly the same)...i figured i was better off with a gun i knew vs a 2nd gun that may be worse....i ate it.....its my fault as much as his....but it left me with the impression that he doesnt even look at what he sells...if he says new it could be a pitted/non functional gun like mine...and i am far from alone....endless people PM me about him....people are silent when they get junk..they dont want to make waves.....you are rolling the dice dealing with him...he is low priced for a reason.

 

 

the market is junk right now.....buyers market....incredible deals out there....you should be able to grab a beautiful gun for $21-23k if you get lucky....

 

ive grabbed 2 guns recently all nice quality for low prices

Edited by huggytree
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https://machineguncentral.com/ViewDetails.aspx?p=410--fae43026-e894-4e49-9e18-48696ba9d27a

 

id offer this guy $21,000

 

the wood looks too figured and may be repro, but if that bothers you that wood costs nothing to replace with real....its got some pits, not perfect...but its a shooter grade/refinish.....

 

not a bad gun and i believe he has lowered the price once already...so he is ready to deal and get it sold most likely....offer $20,000....see where it goes

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Most folks on this board are sticklers for original WW2 guns and will back away from the West Hurley like it was a rattler. Truth is more like Tom TD and Dave Albert say they can be great guns and you shouldn't discount them simply because of that. My WH M1 has run flawlessly since day one and the original finish from the factory is on par with the Colts. Every gun should be considered as it stands no matter who made it look at it as you would anything else.

 

As an aside the WH have increased in value a much more than the WW2 models have in the last 8-10 years.

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Thanks I have a literature list evolving now. I have been looking at a number of TSMG. Yes I bid on the gun joker one and it passed my top bid so I did not want a fixer upper for that. The two bidders were in a bid war. I have found one details soon once we close a/the deal.
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My WH M1 has run flawlessly since day one and the original finish from the factory is on par with the Colts.

 

As an aside the WH have increased in value a much more than the WW2 models have in the last 8-10 years.

 

Kahr® Firearms Group should hire you to write their ad copy. You have a talent for making fiction sound almost plausible.

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Good for you , Vettom. You dropped out at 16 thousand something and was a wise decision as

it would be tainted on a resale. On the literature side, the money you spend on the few reference books

out there will not only be enjoyable reading but will grow your 'knowledge base" of this small arena.

I Know if I had all these books before buying, I would be thousands ahead!!!

 

Ultimate Thompson Book (Hill)

American Thunder ( Iannamico)

Great Britain-The Tommy Gun STory( Davis)

Gun that Made the twenties Roar

 

If I left out any, I hope other Board Members will add to my list

Edited by Haris357
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My WH M1 has run flawlessly since day one and the original finish from the factory is on par with the Colts.

 

As an aside the WH have increased in value a much more than the WW2 models have in the last 8-10 years.

Kahr® Firearms Group should hire you to write their ad copy. You have a talent for making fiction sound almost plausible.

Arthur,

 

You haven't seen Tom's West Hurley. Of course, you are welcome to come out anytime to see it, and I bet he'd even let you do a C-Drum dump.

 

David Albert

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Good for you , Vettom. You dropped out at 16 thousand something and was a wise decision as

it would be tainted on a resale. On the literature side, the money you spend on the few reference books

out there will not only be enjoyable reading but will grow your 'knowledge base" of this small arena

 

Ultimate Thompson Book (Hill)

American Thunder ( Iannamico)

Great Britain-The Tommy Gun STory( Davis)

Gun that Made the twenties Roar

 

If I left out any, I hope other Board Members will add to my list

If you want to read an in depth history of the TSMG, you should get "The Gun That Made The Twenties Roar," by William J. Helmer. Chipotle Publishing has the most recent edition available.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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I have heard of some bad stories about the West Hurley28 but hear is my story. I bought my West Hurley in 1980 for $ 550.00 brand new. I have had it for 38 years and never had a problem with it except one time , my bolt wore out after 30 years . In 2007 , I did send it to Diamond K for a good check up & take some of the sharp

edge's off ,put my serial # on the lower ,bluing etc . I send it to him ,not because it was broke but because I wanted a better looking machine gun . Diamond K did a

wonderful workmanship on this machine gun.

I have shot thousand of rounds & still shooting with it every year at the Creek & gun Clubs

Can you imagine these West Hurley's are selling for $ 20,000. now

My West Hurley 28 is heading for 40 years old ( hopefully )

-

Tino

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My WH M1 has run flawlessly since day one and the original finish from the factory is on par with the Colts.

 

As an aside the WH have increased in value a much more than the WW2 models have in the last 8-10 years.

Kahr® Firearms Group should hire you to write their ad copy. You have a talent for making fiction sound almost plausible.

Arthur,

 

You haven't seen Tom's West Hurley.

David Albert

Dave,

 

True that. But 67ray was describing his factory WH M1 original finish as "on par" with Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company fit and finish bluing on their 1921 TSMGs. Even Ira Trask would roll his eyes on that hyperbole.

 

From the description above, not much remains of the Ira Trask factory TSMG after PK's extensive work inside and out of TD's West Hurley with DR and G.I. replacement parts and replacement wood.

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My WH M1 has run flawlessly since day one and the original finish from the factory is on par with the Colts.

 

As an aside the WH have increased in value a much more than the WW2 models have in the last 8-10 years.

Kahr® Firearms Group should hire you to write their ad copy. You have a talent for making fiction sound almost plausible.

Arthur,

 

You haven't seen Tom's West Hurley.

David Albert

Dave,

 

True that. But 67ray was describing his factory WH M1 original finish as "on par" with Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company fit and finish bluing on their 1921 TSMGs. Even Ira Trask would roll his eyes on that hyperbole.

 

From the description above, not much remains of the Ira Trask factory TSMG after PK's extensive work inside and out of TD's West Hurley with DR and G.I. replacement parts and replacement wood.

 

Wow how do you feel Arthur? :-) Perhaps you should see my gun before you make a blind statement. Fair warning though it may not support your fallacy.

 

BTW I have a Colt and a refinish by Diamond K to compare it to.

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OK boyz the certified check is in Fed-Ex today for a 28 West Hurley I found on another board. After I looked at a number of WHs, GI guns, tried gun joker twice, missed both (that's OK too) and my budget had to play a big part. Considering what had been done to this 28 and all with the work in/on it, GI parts, PK work, mags, etc. for my 1st one wasn't too bad. I felt I can look for a GI next. Literature is being sourced and ordered for reading while this gets transferred. I'll post some pics soon. I thank y'all for your helpful comments.

Edited by Vettom
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Vettom, I see that you have been shopping GunBroker, I do as well and have many years. You may have more experience with site than I. The use of the term Gunjoker tells me it wasn't your first rodeo. I'd like to throw some things out there on this subject. I actually bought my Thompson from there. And by pure luck did I find it. It was not listed in the Class 3 section. It was incorrectly spelled. Only that I made the same mistake did it pop up on my search. It was being sold by a guy for his friend. The owner had inherited his fathers collection. And man what a collection. The guy knew a fair bit but not enough to wait and get premium prices. I wished I could have afforded more. My point... search some sections there where they may have been incorrectly listed. Not all headlines are accurate. Really dig deep. When you find what you want, and I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but try to get the seller on the phone. Make an offer instead of getting in a bid war. Which brings me to other thing about Gun Broker. I have bought enough stuff from there to call myself fairly knowledgeable on their Auctions. Though it is nearly impossible to prove, shill bidding is rampant there. Most of the times you think you are bidding against another interested buyer, get caught up in the 15 minute rule fervor and before you realize it you have overpaid. And I do believe that sometimes the bid was increased by an agent, friend or maybe the seller. I especially notice it when you are trying to buy an obscure part that only you need. Now back to Tompsons, see the spelling? I noticed there are a lot of guys selling autos out of Texas, I heard they claim a lions share of Transferrables, I would not be surprised if they are in cahoots to keep prices up and escalating. Try to avoid the retailers no deals there. This is just one man's opinion. And I hope no one here takes any of this personal. Good Luck Buddy. I hope you find a gem.

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269; Yes I got a number of nice guns off gun joker, over the years and at a fair prices too. I got my C&R to help me on that too. So yes, the jerks are out there for sure. Typical of an auction where 2 want it and are determined the other won't get it, nobody else will either and will run the price way up. I have seen this in many car auctions too pay stupid money for a car. So thanks for the hint on searching I will add that one in. The WH I am purchasing was on a older posting the individual thought he had taken it down so time ago and really told me he now planned on keeping it was no longer for sale. OK, I had a back-up one figured to go for too. After some time he notified me and did decide to sell it, which I am glad of now, a little poorer, but glad.....

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Congrats!! Rest assured if you got the gun I think you did, the current owner brokered it at my home (when he bought it). The seller came down, I went thru the gun, test fired it etc, and then I helped the "new" current owner with some upgrades including the 1921A style barrel. You have a great gun, if I had realized he was putting it up for sale, I would have gone for it myself. You have a good one!!

PM Sent

Edited by Sandman1957
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